Guest Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 About the end of the wiki page and precisely, point 4.5: What should we do? This particular fighter could train Muay Thai to knock the tickers down for elbows and knees (as well as the other related skills), or he could train elbows and knees separately. Training Muay Thai would knock all related skills down by a few points, whilst in this instance, training knees or elbows separately would send the ticker right back to zero for that skill. He also needs to have a session of either circuits or cardio training. Of course, there's always the option there to just have a fight, which resets all the tickers to zero. This may be the best course of action if you get yourself into a mess and have too many skills over the trigger point. A bit earlier it says "In order to prevent skill decreases, or to stop them once they have started, you need to train that skill OR something which is related to that skill. For instance, if your “punches” skill has started to decrease, you can stop (or at least slow) these decreases by training punches, Boxing or Muay Thai. Training punches directly will bring down the ticker by more points than either Boxing or Muay Thai." It just says more points. My guess is that in the particular example in the end those points were enough to take it all the way to zero. Reasonably most specific training should be enough to bring it all the way down if it hasn't start declining though, at least at decently high levels of skill. At really low levels the allowance might be so great it doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 I guess we have to wait for Mike for the true answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 It doesn't automatically reset it but in 99% of cases it will. Basically the bar is 20 points long and training e.g. elbows knocks it down 15-17 points minimum*. The lower the skill the more it knocks it down. * I'm playing with this at the moment, so this is not set in stone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italscratch Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 Most of changes are good, even brilliant but one scenario is coming to my mind, and it isn't pleasnt one. So, you train your fighter for some long time [this is debatable under new rules, but still], round him up a little bit, have some fights and find out that he has decent hiddens [e.g. ko power, good chin etcetc]. You also find that he injures like shit. After some more time, you enjoy him a bit more and that's it. He starts to drop, skills take more time to maintain and that previous training you put him in goes to shithole... Now, this is realistic but isn't fun. At all. This game is played on long timeline as it is, and after that long time you are in jeopardy that it all lasts very short, because of 1 hidden [i use terms short, fast in loosest way possible, we are still talking rl months here]. Then start all over? Dunno...i may have missed something, or overlooked as we are still speculating about the changes but as i said, just scenario i envisioned. I just hope that injury hidden don't becomes new "fast learner" for make fighter,check,sack,make fighter,check,sack method.Cause if i see he KO's guy in 2 minutes dealing damage and avoiding any and then find out he has 16 days injury i would not know what to do with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 It's not fun to find out your 8-0 world beater has a glass chin either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Change is needed for any business to be successful. When a game becomes stagnant, people leave. I "rarely" post in here, but to quote an old star trek movie "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one" I will enjoy the fact that a non VIP member will be able to compete with me. Training for Non VIP members was pathetic. If a new player comes into the game and gets beat down and goes 0-10 against VIP members, what would make him stay? I do not know the ins and outs of the simulation, but having played online games for well over 10 years, I am pretty knowledgeable on what makes a good game. FYI As far a business goes, I do manage over 1 Billion Dollar of assets for a little known company called Siemens, so I do know a little about the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 FYI As far a business goes, I do manage over 1 Billion Dollar of assets for a little known company called Siemens, so I do know a little about the field. Really Sir?! Can you hire me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Question. (If im allowed to ask one w/o flaming responses) This is regarding the 82% total skill point threshold. When managers create 18 year olds. Your skills deteriorate as soon as you start training or does it kick into effect once you reach a certain age or reach the 82% total skill threshold. If the skills deteriorate upon creation...Holy shit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 ithink the changes will be good for the game, plan to have all my guys rotate between all the diff sparring sessions during the week and then work with a coach in the am! 3pm boxing sparring then 1 of wrestling, BJJ and Thai! Then when im happy with the primaries in boxing do the same with wrestling 3 pms and so forth and so forth! We'll see if it works! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Too bad. Pretty much the most realistic change in the game. You can't even close to logically argue that if your an elite strength power monster that training cardio is just as easy as if you were 30 or 40 pounds lighter. Same goes for flexibility. Those are just basics of physical training. In fact, why even have physicals under the old system, if all fighters are going to be almost the same anyway? as for the rest of it, it was inevitable the 4x sensational monsters were going to come to an end. Not only does the concept of make an 18 year old, train him for 18 months or so real life (to create a fighter who looks identical to the other 1000 fighters who just used the exact same formula.) seem tedious, that is a big deterrent to new players. New managers will enjoy fighter design and creation, the new system leaves open windows to design fighters that can be unique enough to win fights based on design- looking up at "sensational in everything" what is the point of even thinking about fighter design? It didn't matter what the changes were. Some people weren't going to like it and were going to probably quit. I imagine that was already understood. I disagree about "elite strength and elite cardio". I'd say that's very possible and not that far from unrealistic. Some football players have elite strength and elite cardio. I would say GSP has elite strength and elite cardio, if not really close to it. Sean Sherk I would say used to have elite strength and elite cardio. Not sure about Kevin Randleman, not sure how well his gas tank was but definitely elite strength. Was trying to think of a heavyweight fighter that could be compared to elite strength & cardio... I'm not saying it's a common thing, but it's very possible and not that unrealistic. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajperok Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 I disagree about "elite strength and elite cardio". I'd say that's very possible and not that far from unrealistic. Some football players have elite strength and elite cardio. I would say GSP has elite strength and elite cardio, if not really close to it. Sean Sherk I would say used to have elite strength and elite cardio. Not sure about Kevin Randleman, not sure how well his gas tank was but definitely elite strength. Was trying to think of a heavyweight fighter that could be compared to elite strength & cardio... I'm not saying it's a common thing, but it's very possible and not that unrealistic. Who has elite strength and elite cardio in Pro Football? Elite strength would be an offensive lineman like Max Starks, Casey Hampton or Larry Allen. These are guys benching almost 600 pounds. These guys can't even run 2 miles I bet. Elite cardio might be a wide reciever, running back or something... Vernon Davis is one of the bigger skill positions. His bench is around 450 pounds. Because he is a TE... maybe he has great cardio, still way below the bigger lineman I mentioned in a strength competition they would crush him like a grape. GSP Elite Strength? If this guy is Elite Strength... http://i365.photobucket.com/albums/oo91/fighting_lemur/GSP.jpg What is this guy Elite X4 strength? Because they are nowhere close http://i365.photobucket.com/albums/oo91/fighting_lemur/lashley.jpg Maybe we have different definitions of Elite. In my mind, it would be like the top 5-10% or so. Not the top 50% 3 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Question. (If im allowed to ask one w/o flaming responses) This is regarding the 82% total skill point threshold. When managers create 18 year olds. Your skills deteriorate as soon as you start training or does it kick into effect once you reach a certain age or reach the 82% total skill threshold. If the skills deteriorate upon creation...Holy shit. From what I understand, skill "maintenance"(I prefer this word) starts upon creation but since your skill point is very low, you don't need to maintain them a lot. The 82% total skill point threshold is that, and I quote, "There is therefore a point at which the decreases are equal to the increases from training", so when you reach 82%, your decrease will be the same as your training. Let's say you get 1.5 points in an elbow lesson and you doesn't maintain the ticker, 1 session and BAM! 1.5 points is gone. The skill deteriorate rate of your young 18 years old will probably be like 0.xx per sessions and the deteriorate rate increases as he grows older and his overall skill point is higher. Who has elite strength and elite cardio in Pro Football? Elite strength would be an offensive lineman like Max Starks, Casey Hampton or Larry Allen. These are guys benching almost 600 pounds. These guys can't even run 2 miles I bet. Elite cardio might be a wide reciever, running back or something... Vernon Davis is one of the bigger skill positions. His bench is around 450 pounds. Because he is a TE... maybe he has great cardio, still way below the bigger lineman I mentioned in a strength competition they would crush him like a grape. Maybe we have different definitions of Elite. In my mind, it would be like the top 5-10% or so. Not the top 50%. Not saying that your GSP vs Lashley comparison is bad, but maybe you can try to use two fighters in the same weight class? Obviously, an elite strength in WW will not be stronger than an elite strength in HW if you go by the strength:weight ratio(and just common sense). And I am fine with the doubled edge of strength vs cardio, so I am not "anti" your point. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacky67 Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 GSP has elite physicals everywhere . 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Just a quick offtop question - is there any other way to check your total skill points than by checking it through web source and adding manually? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Who has elite strength and elite cardio in Pro Football? Elite strength would be an offensive lineman like Max Starks, Casey Hampton or Larry Allen. These are guys benching almost 600 pounds. These guys can't even run 2 miles I bet. Elite cardio might be a wide reciever, running back or something... Vernon Davis is one of the bigger skill positions. His bench is around 450 pounds. Because he is a TE... maybe he has great cardio, still way below the bigger lineman I mentioned in a strength competition they would crush him like a grape. GSP Elite Strength? If this guy is Elite Strength... http://i365.photobucket.com/albums/oo91/fighting_lemur/GSP.jpg What is this guy Elite X4 strength? Because they are nowhere close http://i365.photobucket.com/albums/oo91/fighting_lemur/lashley.jpg Maybe we have different definitions of Elite. In my mind, it would be like the top 5-10% or so. Not the top 50% This post should not have a negative rating because it is totally correct. IMO you could only mark this post down to suit your own biasses, or you don't understand what the system is meant to represent. 150 elite cardio is meant to be a marathon runner, 150 elite strength is meant to be a power lifter. In no way are any football players elite in both strength and cardio. Even the concept of being elite in both is humanly impossible. Now, within the game we've got away from this because there were no limits, but no we can go some way towards making it more realistic. You will still be able to do unrealistic builds if you want to - there is no way to combat them totally, so I'm sure in the game you could end up with an elite strength / cardio guy if you sacrifice some of the other skills but at least we're trying to get somewhere towards human capabilities. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 From what I understand, skill "maintenance"(I prefer this word) starts upon creation but since your skill point is very low, you don't need to maintain them a lot. The 82% total skill point threshold is that, and I quote, "There is therefore a point at which the decreases are equal to the increases from training", so when you reach 82%, your decrease will be the same as your training. Let's say you get 1.5 points in an elbow lesson and you doesn't maintain the ticker, 1 session and BAM! 1.5 points is gone. You wouldn't lose any skills from elbows the next session - you'd be losing a small amount from several of the other skills that you hadn't trained for a while. If you're around the blancing point, all those other small decreases add up, roughly, to the increase you got from the training. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Just a quick offtop question - is there any other way to check your total skill points than by checking it through web source and adding manually? I imagine someone's made a greasemonkey script that will look it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 You wouldn't lose any skills from elbows the next session - you'd be losing a small amount from several of the other skills that you hadn't trained for a while. If you're around the blancing point, all those other small decreases add up, roughly, to the increase you got from the training. Upon further reflection, I don't think it's the actual changes that are irritating me. It's not knowing exactly how these changes will impact my fighter and not knowing yet how to prevent skill loss. As long as it's possible to maintain high skill levels, I won't be all that pissed about it. So, after pages and pages of this crap... it's possible to maintain a highly skilled fighter, yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 I imagine someone's made a greasemonkey script that will look it up. Thank you. I found the one for Chrome since the link for FF seems to be no longer active. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ringfinger Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Upon further reflection, I don't think it's the actual changes that are irritating me. It's not knowing exactly how these changes will impact my fighter and not knowing yet how to prevent skill loss. As long as it's possible to maintain high skill levels, I won't be all that pissed about it. So, after pages and pages of this crap... it's possible to maintain a highly skilled fighter, yes? Yes, but probably not a quad sensational. I read through the entire wiki, slept on it, read this entire thread, and then read the wiki again. It becomes more clear each time, and a lot of the questions in this thread are answered in the wiki if read carefully. Took me quite a bit of reading to figure out training and fighter building when I first started this game 1.5 years ago. It's just going to take a little reading again to figure out the changes and soon it will be second nature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Posted June 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 I agree with what's been said earlier, the only change I don't like is the cumulative effect of injuries. Anything that creates such a big incentive for people to not take fights is a really bad idea. It'll make the game a lot less fun since taking fights is the whole point of playing. It'll make things less fun for managers and create huge headaches for org owners when people start refusing to take fights for fear of getting injured. It's just a terrible, terrible idea. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 I agree with what's been said earlier, the only change I don't like is the cumulative effect of injuries. Anything that creates such a big incentive for people to not take fights is a really bad idea. It'll make the game a lot less fun since taking fights is the whole point of this game. Honestly, this is my biggest concern as well. I can get it from a "realistic" point of view, but from a gameplay point of view I think this might do more harm than good. Make injuries affect training\performance to a degree instead, but don't make them the "fight killer". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis84 Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 So I now have 1 week to figure all this new stuff out before its implimented? Timne to get the graphs and mathmatical equsions out then throw them away and panic like a headless chiken me thinks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Posted June 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 To elaborate on my point, here's an example. I manage Golden Glory, who's currently #1 P4P. He's young, talented, and undefeated. It would be fun for me, and for other people playing the game, to have him fight often and against good competition. However, Glory tends to come out of his fights with a lot of injuries. Where I'd normally have him fight someone a month from now, I'm now inclined to have him fight two or three months from now, and only against a very carefully selected opponent who's ranked in the top 5. Taking on anyone else just isn't worth it. I don't want to do this but it's the smart thing to do. Instead of looking forward to my next fight, I'm dreading it because I know that it'll lead to Glory's demise due to accumulating injuries. This isn't fun at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fever Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Honestly, this is my biggest concern as well. I can get it from a "realistic" point of view, but from a gameplay point of view I think this might do more harm than good. Make injuries affect training\performance to a degree instead, but don't make them the "fight killer". +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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