Clinch issues

[GiankaBonghi]

 

Neither of these things are true. Since I started scouting more and more MMA, it's been a real surprise quite how many fighters just clinch up for no reason other than to tire out their opponent. It's probably the most under-valued aspects of MMA as a whole and something this game probably doesn't simulate well at all. Whether it should is a different matter, because it is boring.

 

Johny Hendricks always tried to clinch Robbie Lawler to negate his aggressivity, if i remember right.

[shockg]

 

Neither of these things are true. Since I started scouting more and more MMA, it's been a real surprise quite how many fighters just clinch up for no reason other than to tire out their opponent. It's probably the most under-valued aspects of MMA as a whole and something this game probably doesn't simulate well at all. Whether it should is a different matter, because it is boring.

Team quest were masters of it back in the day. Almost every wrestler does it naturally, get close avoid damage and drag on them, lay/press on them, hit them or a combo of those three. Now it is a commonly considered tactic for resting and simultaneously make the other guy tired by being forced to carry your weight; and of course for damage and tds.

 

Would be hard to simulate because it's boring and slow/technical. I love to watch it but some wallnstall fights would not be fun to read.

[Mooncutter]

I think MT should give slightly more control in clinch. It should also make it easier to enter and exit the clinch. Perhaps about as powerful as a secondary? Wrestling should still be the primary attribute, but let me tell you that there are MT fighters whose clinch is their main thing. Real MT even has clinch takedowns you know? They throw each other and stuff. Consider adding some of that in the absolute highest levels of MT.

[Philosopher]

The knees should be more accurate imo. As it is at the moment there's not realy any idea to put a lot of valuable skill points in something that's contacts so rare (especially at higher levels).

[Mooncutter]

The knees should be more accurate imo. As it is at the moment there's not realy any idea to put a lot of valuable skill points in something that's contacts so rare (especially at higher levels).

I don't know about higher levels but at low and midrange it works fine. I think it's perfectly balanced at that level.

[KATSU]

Clinch should be removed..i lost my QFC fight

[Timqwe]

Clinch should be removed..i lost my QFC fight

You should be removed

[Diablix]

 

Neither of these things are true. Since I started scouting more and more MMA, it's been a real surprise quite how many fighters just clinch up for no reason other than to tire out their opponent. It's probably the most under-valued aspects of MMA as a whole and something this game probably doesn't simulate well at all. Whether it should is a different matter, because it is boring.

 

Totally agree, and if you start to take some submission grappling or bjj classes you can really feel how much tiring can be to simply have one person that is pushing his elbow (not to mention the whole body) on your chest or on your throat. You might not be striking, but you're really trying with all your strength to weaken the person... until you feel it, you underestimate it. And in some situation you can even be almost resting.

 

I personally don't find it boring because I appreciate the technique behind it, but I can understand why many don't like it. But for sure it would be boring on this game, since you're reading, not watching real fighters. So I understand your point.

 

And to the guy that said that if you strike it's easy to escape.... that's totally false. Because a pro fighter strikes either because he's desperate (so he's not the one that is control) or because he IS controlling the guy, you probably just don't recognize it. In the right position or with the correct leverage one arm or your body alone can be more than enough to totally hinder the opponent moves, don't forget that he must be careful, it just take one well placed knee or elbow to the head to oneshot someone if he totally messes up

[Guest]

at this moment ..elbow do much more damage then knee ?

[Guest]

No.

[Guest]

I realize that this hasn't been looked at in a while, but the largest issue you have with the clinch is that it's all based off one stat - Clinchwork.

 

If you compare it to the ground, you have:

 

TDO & TDD (To get there).

Transitions, Escapes & Defensive Grappling (To get into or out of position as well as defend things)

 

You can just be way better in the clinch without having to train as many skills. Honestly, you don't even need Knees and Elbows that much - with punches doubling up (even though Punches is already being used for standup). Comparitively, GNP and/or subs is an entirely separate skill that's needed to be trained.

[BillyRose]

I realize that this hasn't been looked at in a while, but the largest issue you have with the clinch is that it's all based off one stat - Clinchwork.

 

 

You're so wrong I'm actually impressed.

[Guest]

You're so wrong I'm actually impressed.

In terms of secondaries? Which other stats are affecting Clinchwork?

 

Keep in mind that the examples I gave above largely relate to getting into / avoiding the clinch as well as controlling / transitioning inside it.

[JakeF]

I think that takedown secondaries play a role in the clinch, also for pulling guard you need high BJJ primary. Other thing is that even with elite++ clinchwork you would need very high wrestling primary to be effective in the clinch. And last, but not least, physicals play a very high role there too. There are also elbows and knees that could be trained but they arent as effective as punches plus dont help elsewhere so most people avoid them. I dont think that introducing more clinch secondaries would bring more diversity in the game by adding more builds. I just think that people will focus on punches and kicks and play mostly stand-up which would make this game a kickboxing tycoon even more than it is now.

[Guest]

I think that takedown secondaries play a role in the clinch, also for pulling guard you need high BJJ primary. Other thing is that even with elite++ clinchwork you would need very high wrestling primary to be effective in the clinch. And last, but not least, physicals play a very high role there too. There are also elbows and knees that could be trained but they arent as effective as punches plus dont help elsewhere so most people avoid them. I dont think that introducing more clinch secondaries would bring more diversity in the game by adding more builds. I just think that people will focus on punches and kicks and play mostly stand-up which would make this game a kickboxing tycoon even more than it is now.

You're right. However, the need to have physicals, wrestling and BJJ exists for a ground fighter as well. I didn't mention knees and elbows as I also didn't mention GNP and Subs.

 

You're also right in the fact that this may lead to more stand-up fighters - but if balanced along with engine changes, it could create far more variety.

 

My logic is as follows - any action that requires more skills overall should be more powerful than something that requires lesser. That itself creates the need to prioritize.

[JakeF]

And here we come to Duphus' idea again - primaries to be reflection of secondaries. I really think that this game wouldnt have variety as it should be in MMA as long as every fighter could be an Elite in all 4 disciplines.

[madbob]

nvm

 

i miss read something

[Guest]

And here we come to Duphus' idea again - primaries to be reflection of secondaries. I really think that this game wouldnt have variety as it should be in MMA as long as every fighter could be an Elite in all 4 disciplines.

Absolutely. Or if doing that makes you forgo secondaries.

 

The only issue is that doing primaries that way makes sparring useless (which is the only thing a 1on1 gym can struggle in anyway).

[JimCornette]

You're so wrong I'm actually impressed.

lol'd.

[Mooncutter]

I just want to say that dmg/accuracy should be increased for knees and elbows. Maybe more knees than elbows. Maybe boost dmg and accuracy 1-2%? That's very reasonable.

[HardcoreHaney]

Then try to pull guard in clinch if i have have great bjj..and they dont have off great takedown def

[Rambo]

Clinch should be easier to exit, unless opponent is set to control or much more skilled. You rarely see high level MMA fights that look like most of the clinch fights we have in tycoon. Tycoon looks like Thai fighting or Hockey fighting in the clinch lol.

 

 

irl modern MMA type clinch fight sequence / strikes

http://www.mixed-martial-arts-training.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/danzig-neer-3_medium.gif

 

 

 

 

 

MMATycoon versions of clinch fight:

 

 

[Jarmas]

knees need a real bump in my opinion , and clinches should be harder to get into and harder to exit

[Humble]

Knees needs a bump for sure

[Rambo]

knees need a real bump in my opinion , and clinches should be harder to get into and harder to exit

Absolutely not.

 

 

 

If there were 'forms' or positions of clinch in this game... Like over/under, thai plum, etc... Make a case for it. Since there isn't, absolutely not on the bolded.