Fight Engine Discussion

[Guest]

I'm aware that people want another tweak to the ground game, specifically related to standups / escapes.

 

I am perfectly happy to increase GNP success and reduce damage and / or add a damage / accuracy slider for GNP. If people want escapes toned down a bit too, cool.

 

So fire away then, if you have any opinions on the matter.

BLAH,BLAH,BLAH! This is for credits

[edwardsfan]

it would be really usefull to adjust game plan by rounds. it would give a lot of opportunity, for example wear down your opponent in first 2 rounds and ko him in the 3rd. also it would be really good if i could coach him during the fight

 

absolutely not. Part of what makes the lead up to the fight is knowing you got one opportunity to scout and put in a winning game plan. Then wondering right up until the moment of fight time whether you made a good decision or not.

 

Also round by round tactics would make fights so indecipherable. Terrible idea. Been against it from the beginning. Definitely not a good idea at all

[rac2]

absolutely not. Part of what makes the lead up to the fight is knowing you got one opportunity to scout and put in a winning game plan. Then wondering right up until the moment of fight time whether you made a good decision or not.

 

Also round by round tactics would make fights so indecipherable. Terrible idea. Been against it from the beginning. Definitely not a good idea at all

 

Agreed. This is a MMORPG (or whatever) after all. It would only make sense if you had a way to interfere in the fight real time, which makes no sense in a game like this.

[markyosullivan]

 

3rd training session creates even more micromanaging bs this game doesn't need. It's taking a step in the chore direction and less in the game direction.

 

Not only do you have to set an extra session per every fighter, you have to set those sessions for every coach. Very tedious. Micromanaging.

 

#trainingtycoon

#flyingfightertycoon

 

You should be able to have a "set all" option where you set all of the training sessions to one certain thing

[edwardsfan]

 

You should be able to have a "set all" option where you set all of the training sessions to one certain thing

Oh goodness yes lol

[edwardsfan]

I also think it's high time that we scrap the standard elite coaches we have now and start using retired fighters. There's more than enough really good retired fighters in the database now to fill the gyms we have.

 

Rework the cost per point for coaches since coaches would now be skilled like a real fighter and badda Bing badda boom. You have a totally new realistic training aspect of the game.

 

Coaches will also bring their hidden aspects into the game that they could pass onto fighters.

 

EVERY gym would then be unique

[rac2]

ok we're going way beyond engine here... would like to hear from Mike what are his next steps towards game changes

[Guest]

I'd like to see strikes from the bottom be more effective. Not in the, like, you can get a knockout off of it sense (but that may be a part of it-- like a small chance if the guy's taken a bunch of damage or something or if the person has a lot of knockout power), but in that they'll be thrown- and land more often and gas out your opponent sense.

I know you don't often see strikes from the bottom in fights, but that's not cuz' they're not effective. It's cuz' a lot of fighters are trained (falsely, I'll add) to think that's a useless thing to do, but a lot of fighters who do like to strike from the bottom have had a lot of success with it (Miguel Torres is one, and Bas Rutten's a big one.)

i think strike from bottom should do minimal damage,but it should land at much bigger precentage(like in real life) and make it easy for opponent to posture up

[Guest]

it would be really usefull to adjust game plan by rounds. it would give a lot of opportunity, for example wear down your opponent in first 2 rounds and ko him in the 3rd. also it would be really good if i could coach him during the fight

nice idea.it would fell much more like you are manager. but i think you should be able to change limited amount of sliders in between the rounds(like in real life)

[Guest]

it should me optional of coure, but i think you should be able to adjust game plan by minutes too. for example come out strong in first minute and conserve energy for next four. that said, it can only be vip only feature

[misha]

I don't know why people complain so much about the ground game. I have 2-3 fighters who are verry well trained in those department and they won almost every fight. I'm not sure how it is at the top top level as my fighters aren't to their top skill, but look at this fight:

http://mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=794251

and keep in mind perry has 14 tk def , very good psihycals and 14 wresling with black belt in Bjj and he coudn't stop the takedowns let alone do anything on the ground against a good wrestler.

What do you want from your wrestlers? To go 100% takedowns and win the fight ?

 

Maybe I will get a lot of neg for this post, but just my oppinion. At the top of ufc do you see fighters that can win like GSP with the g&p ? Off course a medal olimpian like Cormier can probably win all his fights with the grappling, but he relies on his striking to get close and get the takedowns. Those times where a wresler can take a fighter and sit on him for 3 rounds are over. All fighters are versatile and almost all of them have very nice takedown def.

 

Another question: If I have 15 tk def with 15 wresling and you have 15 tk with 15 wrestling, who should win the fight to stay on the feet? Me cause I have the perfect defence or you cause you have the perfect offense. Here comes down to gameplan in my oppinion.

 

Another example why I think the server works fine as it is, is my fighter Neculai:

http://mmatycoon.com/fighterprofilemanager.php?FID=270589

9 wins by sub in 1st round, 1 win by sub in 2nd round.

and his only 2 losses come to the same guy by sub.

Either all my opponents really really suck or he does well and gets the fight to the ground and submit his opponents.

 

Again just my oppinion so feel free to correct me if I;m wrong.

this post will be blast in dislikes, but this guy really has a good poin

[edwardsfan]

I agree. There was no problem with ground game. Counter takedowns did need a bump. But that was all. The rest worked pretty well

[misha]

take henry cejudo for example. He became a Olympic gold medalist at 21 years old, the youngest American wrestler to do so. if took him 7 years to imporve his striking. it was hardly enough to beat jussier formiga, and novere enough to defeat mighty mouse

[misha]

you should be able to adjust gameplan by round or even better, by minutes. it would give you a lot of oppotrunitys, for example coming out strong in first minute and conserving energy for other four. unfortunately it might be option for vips only

[misha]

it would be really good if i could coach him during the fight and change gameplan based on fighters performance.but i should be able to change only limited amount of sliders(like in real life)

[juicemalone]

Ground game is good now Gnp slider and counter TD improvement is all we needed.

 

If your guy has poor intelligence he won't be very good on ground period. Amazed that most people fail to grasp this. Only hope there is for him to have good TDs and a combination of GNP and ko power that will at least make him a threat.

[JLP]

Ground game is good now Gnp slider and counter TD improvement is all we needed.

 

If your guy has poor intelligence he won't be very good on ground period. Amazed that most people fail to grasp this. Only hope there is for him to have good TDs and a combination of GNP and ko power that will at least make him a threat.

I'm in agreement. Its a small sample size so far, but I think a grappler has a much better chance then the "pray for first minute td or lose" that we had before. If Mike is still planning on adjusting escapes, I would hope it would be very small so we can see the results first.

[KingEpicity]

Honestly I am not sure why people keep complaining about these mythical over-powered escapes in the first place. It's just not true. People escape more often in real life than they do in this game. The problem is people struggle so hard to get a takedown and the first one gets escaped then the second one ends in a ref stand up and then another ref stand up and then another escape later on to seal the deal. They aren't able to do much on the ground after working so hard to get it there so for some reason people keep blaming the escapes for the problems in the ground game. The whole point of escapes is to be able to escape. Honestly, they aren't overpowered at all. I have had plenty of fights against grapplers where my fighter didn't get escapes at all and some fights where I got a few which is how it should be. If your guy is elite in escapes than he should be very hard to take down and keep down, that's the whole point isn't it? Otherwise we wouldn't of wasted the points in stacking up that secondary. Whatever the problem may be it is on the ground game... The counter takedown boost should definitely help because there was not enough takedowns happening with counters, especially if it's a failed kick. People struggle the whole fight to get takedowns and then when a couple of those takedowns are escaped they rage on that. For the most part has always been the bigger issue.

 

The GNP accuracy/damage slider is definitely an excellent addition that will help some but in just my opinion it will just be some. It's a good start and this may not be a suggestion Mike wants to see at the moment because it may require some work but I think if you really want to make the ground game effective and less random you need more sliders. Mainly, guard/half and side mount/full mount need to be two separate sliders. Stick position is not nearly enough to give yourself an effective strategy on the ground that accounts for these two very different halves of the ground game. Now this comes into play on the bottom for sure as well but I will be focusing on the top game at the moment. If you are in guard, your strategy if you got to choose would likely be very different than it would be now. Mainly, my primary focus would be GNP if I had the secondary and advancing position... Attempting subs at this point is really unlikely to end up in a finish and is usually just a waste of moves and energy for the aggressor if your opponent has decent defensive grappling. In side mount or mount of course, submission become much more likely and you don't have to worry about advancing your position much considering where you are. Stick position would take attempting moves to advance position out of the equation here but that only gives more focus to submissions and/or ground n pound while in your stick position. Currently, unless your fighter is very smart... If you want to attempt a lot of subs while in mount you have to set the slider that way for the entire top game and hope he doesn't attempt too many subs while in guard instead of actually trying to pass guard. With separate sliders, you go go 0 subs while in guard and only attempt submissions when you are passed your opponent's guard. You can also switch from aggressive to counter or whatever your preference is when you are in a better position. My main point in all of this is, you would normally have very different strategies for each aspect/position of the ground game but with the current sliders you cannot set for them unless your guy is very smart and you turn him lose to choose on his own. This is much more relevant than clinch positions(which would be cool but there is no immediacy on improving it.) I think going this route would make grapplers much more dangerous to stand up fighters.

 

 

 

 

There is also the fact that due to the cap it's not possible to have a complete grappler with elite subs and gnp without completely compromising another essential part of the game. You would either compromise the striking you need (punches, kicks, clinchwork, sd) by having them lower than they should be to complete at a top level or you would leave something lacking your primaries or physicals. I am not sure what possible solution can be done here because raising the cap will only leave us with nothing but identical fighters. One idea I had was a slight tweaking of a suggestion I saw at one point which was clinch tds and clinch tdd... rather than that you could ditch the takedown part and try just clinch takedown defense which leaves another area stand up fighters would have to account for. This extra secondary to account for would put stand up fighters in the same boat with skill point cap as grapplers and would likely lead to a scramble of different fighter builds to make up for the major change. Which would be a good thing I think that there would be no right answer or go-to build for either stand up fighter or grapplers.

[misha]

mike is probably not reading this posts anymore as there are no more posts by moderator or taycoon team

[shockg]

mike is probably not reading this posts anymore as there are no more posts by moderator or taycoon team

 

He is, he's just busy. You are a multi so whatever, but just to let you know. It is very hard for him to respond always to everyone with what he has to deal with; for what he gets. Seriously.

[shockg]

 

 

 

I'm not going to quote the whole thing but that is great thinking.

 

I agree with everything you said. Only been around a year or so but that is spot on imo.

[poraan]

 

Theres plenty of good things, but i still think that instant escapes are too good.

Also theres so many total luck factors with grapplers and instant escapes are one fo them. Reduce effectiveness of instant escapes and boost non instant escapes.

 

Imagine submissions or escapes as striker? Sub fighter may get that lucky sub maybe once in 10 fights. Escape fighter can get many times multiple instant escapes in fight. Subs are basically useless unless you get that lucky sub.

 

When people compare tycoon to real life they took some parts from real life and forgot that other things are still tycoon things.

In tycoon you can layandpray 5 minutes without landing anything or get instant escape or referee standup, it all depents so much on luck.

 

Honestly i didnt like this current skill cap system, but i have started to like it. There is so many differend builds that have own advantages.

Basic thing is that all fighters have elite striking skills, clinch etc. But difference comes from: Takedowns, knees/elbows, takedowndef, subs, escapes and gnp.

If you have wrestler without subs he does really well against strikers, because he has same striking skills as strikers. But against grapplers you have to think do you even want to take fight to the ground.

[juicemalone]

Hopefully dmg/accuracy slider can get added to clinch too.

[Bwang]

I like the idea of clinch takedown defence, so that strikers and grapplers have the same number of secondaries to focus on.

[edwardsfan]

Fuck instant escapes.

 

That being said I'm not against instant escapes. If they don't work then ppl wont attempt them. I just think more value could be added for a successful takedown and also more value given for time spent on the ground controlling the action would be my answer to balance it out. Hell in real life a lot of times a takedown is literally the deal sealer. On here, they don't carry as much weight. That's my opinion on it.