Fight Engine Discussion

[Guest]

He is, he's just busy. You are a multi so whatever, but just to let you know. It is very hard for him to respond always to everyone with what he has to deal with; for what he gets. Seriously.

 

He is, he's just busy. You are a multi so whatever, but just to let you know. It is very hard for him to respond always to everyone with what he has to deal with; for what he gets. Seriously.

 

Well he is not that busy.I had some question whith him three days ago and he responded right away.well I take my words back mike is probably reading this post, just he should make us feel that he is.yes I am multi. Man, this bitch riggie trithson is so fool that he even told you about it. As long as I cannot understand what is point in riggies bitching, I understand that mike wouldn't delete my account as he had not for last three days, but after I say, yes I am multi, he probably will, but whatever I give up this game already anyway.

[Guest]

It would be nice if orgs could make a tournaments. There are many gyes trying to do it unofficial my, but it would be more comfortable to do it officially

[MMATycoon]

I'd have no problem in theory with more sliders for the ground but plenty of people would beef about the extra stuff they'd have to do.

One idea I had related to that concept - I thought it would be cool to have specialist training options for each fight, so you could do e.g. "Train subs from side control", which wouldn't require any extra sliders - the game engine would just know you wanted to do more subs from that positon and would try and work you into that position. We could do all manner of training to give very specific boosts.

 

In general, the only thing I was thinking of adding short term, which I'm not sure if I've mentioned in this thread, is a "Go Early --------- Go Late" slider for energy useage over the course of the fight. We've always had the thought that "well, I could just tell my fighter was going to lose from reading the first few minutes of the fight." If we had a slider for whether to use up energy early or late, then we'd have much more variety.

 

And FWIW I've read every post in the thread.

Regarding cornermen, I've talked about it a few times but in general I think they're an added level of detail that would be cool but would annoy a lot of people in terms of the usual micromanaging complaint.

They're certainly not off the table at all and I personally think they would be really good - I just know they wouldn't be universally liked.

 

If we do do them though, I would like to use them for "if" tactics. So if your fighter is losing the standup, change to do x differently etc. This way we could make adjustments to gameplans without making the fighter profiles a complete mess, plus it would be optional.

[madbob]

"Go Early --------- Go Late" slider

 

+1

[shortfuse122829]

I still think escapes should be under finish/control in the heirarchy. It's totally lame that you can go 90 counter 90 control and 80 get up and still get instant escapes. It means you have to overcome the counter/control = ref stand up in addition to instant escapes. I don't think escapes should be nerfed but that strategy should also not be a feasible one imo

[MMATycoon]

I still think escapes should be under finish/control in the heirarchy. It's totally lame that you can go 90 counter 90 control and 80 get up and still get instant escapes. It means you have to overcome the counter/control = ref stand up in addition to instant escapes. I don't think escapes should be nerfed but that strategy should also not be a feasible one imo

 

Oh yeah, I forgot about that one... Yup, I'll see how hard it is to do once I've done the stuff I'm working on now (separate cap for physicals).

[Rambo]

I still think escapes should be under finish/control in the heirarchy. It's totally lame that you can go 90 counter 90 control and 80 get up and still get instant escapes. It means you have to overcome the counter/control = ref stand up in addition to instant escapes. I don't think escapes should be nerfed but that strategy should also not be a feasible one imo

 

 

that doesn't make any sense though. tbh.

 

 

if you get taken down, your reaction is to gtfo or up. right? most cases any way. but if you don't, well who's to say that you don't do anything but try to control and counter what your opponent is trying to do, if anything? plenty of people try to instantly escape but go into turtle/control mode when they can't. no reason should be forced to set high finishes for instant escapes.

 

the problem with ground sliders is positions and lack of ability to set different sliders per ground position (I don't want more sliders, fuck that, less is better. too much to do already). how a fighter would react when he's got an opponent is his guard is completely different than how he would react if opponent had him mounted... therefor we usually get some bs high control nonsense out of most people because ground sliders are one demensional and that's unrealistic and doesn't do jujitsu or grappling justice.

 

 

and after all that, I still think instant escapes should also be countered with another takedown roll/attempt % or punch/kick/knee roll based on aggression setting and other sliders.

 

MMA and fighting is much more complex. tycoon sliders simplify things to a fault. hard to adjust/simulate that properly.

 

or we say fuck all, and make fighters go into this shit with 100% SHIG. where we set up a gameplan but their IQ and experience impacts if they listen or not.

[edwardsfan]

I didn't read all of Rambos post. I saw enough once he said less is better. He's 100% correct. Less IS better.

 

LESS IS BETTER

[edwardsfan]

The vagueness is what keeps the game playable for a long time. I'm constantly weighing out what I think a slider means or possible meanings. The unknown is what keeps it good and a slider that paints with a broad brush is perfect.

 

As soon as things start getting so precise that you are controlling every little aspect of a fight then that is when ppl will start to figuring it out and becoming board. Because they have cracked the code.

[edwardsfan]

Learn your lesson from the tickers. That was more and it was less.

 

KISS

 

Keep it simple stupid

[Rambo]

MMA and fighting is much more complex. tycoon sliders simplify things to a fault. hard to adjust/simulate that properly.

 

or we say fuck all, and make fighters go into this shit with 100% SHIG. where we set up a gameplan but their IQ and experience impacts if they listen or not.

 

^^^ I'm all in favor of this. It would make experience and IQ much more valuable.

[shortfuse122829]

I'm not saying guys don't hold on for dear life in real mma CK but this game isn't real. I'm pretty sure Mike has stated that activity is the average of the 2 fighters agg/finish. That's not very realistic either bc the guy on top can still pour pressure on despite bottom guys attempts at control. The overall pace on the ground is unbelievably unrealistic. So is the difficulty to land from guard. So comparing to RL is irrelevant anyway. Based on the engine that strategy is crap & something Mike stated wouldn't even be possible when the last changes were made

[shortfuse122829]

You could try to fix the ground by making numerous changes, increasing activity to a more realistic volume, making gnp from guard more effective etc etc. Making guys use finish to attempt escapes will just be the easiest solution. Both guys going more finish instead of top guy 75 finish & bottom guy 90 control increases activity if what Mike said bout the avg of the 2 being true. That increases activity, decreasing ref stand ups & makes escapes more risky all in 1 shot

[shortfuse122829]

oh I should probably state I haven't really read many fights since the new sliders were added, I was busy with Supernova, then in Tampa for a week & didn't read my first fights since they were added until yesterday so all my above statements are not factoring that into the equation. Maybe gnp from guard is easier now....

[JLP]

 

Oh yeah, I forgot about that one... Yup, I'll see how hard it is to do once I've done the stuff I'm working on now (separate cap for physicals).

Can you give us some insight on how you are planning on bringing everyone down to the cap?

Say you have a fighter with 95% of the current cap will he be at 95% of the new one and a fighter with 85% brought down to 85% of the new cap?

[Mooncutter]

I still don't like a seperate cap for physicals. A general cap is needed, but a sepereate cap for physicals means less fighter variety. Less variety, and you can't really hold on to slow learners and turn them into physical beasts. The game engine should be reworked so that NOT having maxed out physicals is a legit option. It would be harder to do, but it would be better.

[SeanJuan]

Probably an off-topic question, but I do not remember seeing it in here.

 

Are there any plans to be able to predict more than just the opponent's standing (outside) tactics?

[duphus]

Probably an off-topic question, but I do not remember seeing it in here.

 

Are there any plans to be able to predict more than just the opponent's standing (outside) tactics?

 

no, but it was talked about removing them all together.

[JLP]

I still don't like a seperate cap for physicals. A general cap is needed, but a sepereate cap for physicals means less fighter variety. Less variety, and you can't really hold on to slow learners and turn them into physical beasts. The game engine should be reworked so that NOT having maxed out physicals is a legit option. It would be harder to do, but it would be better.

A separate cap for physicals means you actually have to think about how your fighter's physicals are developed. It's going to hugely increase fighter variety.

[juicemalone]

I would be for removing the prediction sliders. Learn how to do sliders dammit lol.

[762x39]

Is there any chance we will get a 3rd level of QFC added? I posted about it before and never heard anything. My fighter Mike McGuire just got off contract because of Victory canceling the card he was on. He hadnt fought in a while so I booked him a QFC, I have the other guy so outskilled it is not even close. I felt bad as soon as seeing his guy. I think level 2 should be capped at 1250 or 1300 points then anything higher have a level 3. The guy I am fighting cant be much over a level 1.

 

That or give the manager a chance to decline if the skill gap is over a set amount. Say skill gap more than 100 points or something the manager has the option to decline.

 

I am just throwing out numbers I would be open to whatever was decided but something really needs to change about the QFC's.

[shockg]

I would be for removing the prediction sliders. Learn how to do sliders dammit lol.

I am against it. I want to be able to massage the odds in my favor. I don't always set them, but they add a layer to scouting opponents that is fun for me.

[sabaton]

Is there any chance we will get a 3rd level of QFC added? I posted about it before and never heard anything. My fighter Mike McGuire just got off contract because of Victory canceling the card he was on. He hadnt fought in a while so I booked him a QFC, I have the other guy so outskilled it is not even close. I felt bad as soon as seeing his guy. I think level 2 should be capped at 1250 or 1300 points then anything higher have a level 3. The guy I am fighting cant be much over a level 1.

 

That or give the manager a chance to decline if the skill gap is over a set amount. Say skill gap more than 100 points or something the manager has the option to decline.

 

I am just throwing out numbers I would be open to whatever was decided but something really needs to change about the QFC's.

I also just booked a qfc where my fighter is probably the 99% favorite to win based on skills (maybe 50% in reality just cause i suck lol)

 

http://www.mmatycoon.com/scoutfight.php?fida=245021&fidb=293764

[edwardsfan]

I still don't like a seperate cap for physicals. A general cap is needed, but a sepereate cap for physicals means less fighter variety. Less variety, and you can't really hold on to slow learners and turn them into physical beasts. The game engine should be reworked so that NOT having maxed out physicals is a legit option. It would be harder to do, but it would be better.

I actually agree with a lot of what you say.

 

I like a general cap also because it gives you more options on how to build your fighters. When you start breaking it up into caps for each little group then it narrows possibilities.

 

For instance if you had a seperate cap for physicals, primaries and secondaries then there will probably be 2 or 3 optimal strategies for physicals. 2 or 3 optimal strategies for primaries. And 2 or 3 optimal strategies for secondaries. In the end the ever evolving fight engine biases will always narrow those down to 1 or 2 legit builds. In the end most fighters are still going to look very similar because you've got them taped off into categories and ppl cant venture away from one another.

 

But if you had a general overall cap where points could be dispersed freely over an entire fighter. At that point you truly would see ppl working many different strategies and ideas. Because you wouldn't be gated off.

 

But im all for whichever gets implemented. Physical cap sounds fine to me. But I do think it would make more sense from a variety standpoint to do an overall cap as opposed to sectional cap.

[sabaton]

I actually agree with a lot of what you say.

 

I like a general cap also because it gives you more options on how to build your fighters. When you start breaking it up into caps for each little group then it narrows possibilities.

 

For instance if you had a seperate cap for physicals, primaries and secondaries then there will probably be 2 or 3 optimal strategies for physicals. 2 or 3 optimal strategies for primaries. And 2 or 3 optimal strategies for secondaries. In the end the ever evolving fight engine biases will always narrow those down to 1 or 2 legit builds. In the end most fighters are still going to look very similar because you've got them taped off into categories and ppl cant venture away from one another.

 

But if you had a general overall cap where points could be dispersed freely over an entire fighter. At that point you truly would see ppl working many different strategies and ideas. Because you wouldn't be gated off.

 

But im all for whichever gets implemented. Physical cap sounds fine to me. But I do think it would make more sense from a variety standpoint to do an overall cap as opposed to sectional cap.

I completely agree. The only physicals that should be capped seperately are strength and flex. You should not be able to get elite in both.

I like the primaries at 1.3 idea. I would argue for a much lower overall cap, but then put physicals at like 0.8. Anyone can obtain great physicals in real life. But not everyone can obtain elite fighting skills. I know i could train CT and get muscular and fast, but no amount of training would get me anywhere near cage fighting level. That is just a different beast.

So with slow learners, they may not reach elite fighting skills, but theres no reason they cant reach high physical skills.

Lifting weights doesnt requite a fighting iq.