Ticker Replacements

[Acoustic]

How will physicals come into play with this? Same as secondaries/Primaries?

[PBR]

How will physicals come into play with this? Same as secondaries/Primaries?

yes based off your overall combined % -- and will take decline in all skills evenly over the %

[Acoustic]

Sounds good, maybe we might see some diversity in the higher levels now.

[Goatacre]

Okay, first of all to try and respond to Mike's initial post:

 

Patch

 

Generally sounds fine. However, does this mean fighters' age deterioration point will potentially be given away? If so, is this an issue for you? Will these age deterioration points be intended to carry over unchanged into the proper solution as well?

 

Proper solution

 

I expect it would be useful to confirm what the current problem is that this change is intended to rectify, as it is only then that the proposal can accurately be judged on whether it addresses that, and then reviewing it for any unintended knock-on effects.

 

My understanding of the key issue with tickers is the wish not to have to micro-manage training so much (not something I agree with personally, it's really not that tough but hey I'd rather a system where established VIP players were not feeling forced to leave on something like that.

 

I think the proposal does address this, although the "what you've trained recently" boost means a tiny bit of complexity is retained, but would add a neat dimension to fight planning, I think.

 

As others have pointed out, 80% across the board actually seems too high potentially. This is usually when looking at secondaries in isolation, though, so when factoring in that many people (currently) like seeing physicals over 90%, etc, the benchmark suggested probably works out reasonably well.

 

The people complaining that their hopes of reaching (a previously never stated goal of) 80% by all fighters being levelled down need to engage brains a little more: this change is bringing you (and me) closer to competing with these beasts, not making things harder! Whether the skill level of your fighter is an average of 100 across the board or 110 is wholly irrelevant by itself, it's just a number. What matters more is that number in relation to other fighters - this change is bunching the whole pack up and making things more competitive.

 

The alternative to this is that you open up the skill level ceiling so that, for example, we could reach 200 points in all skills (number just an illustrative example), with an ever decreasing learning rate. I prefer your suggestion.

 

It would be useful, as others have requested, to outline how the skill drop would take place. In my opinion it HAS to be spread evenly (or based on aptitudes, but see below for part of the reason why I'd not favour that) otherwise it's a free pass to design your own perfect fighters ready for the new system, and is also highly likely to lead to calls for he opportunity to redo this when people realise they've missed a trick that others have employed!

 

If introducing this system, I do prefer the idea of there being an element of variation in what the cap is. Not a huge difference, though, maybe in the range 78-82% (as that's still quite a lot of points). This is therefore a hidden attribute really, and personally I would base this off learning speed (as the benefit of learning speed is nerfed relative to others by these changes anyway.

 

I agree with concerns voiced by others about what the changes would do to the viability of ground fighters, and agree that the balance of the game engine should be at the forefront of considerations. I'm sure this issue is not insurmountable, but highlighting that by, say, tweaking the impact that subs/GnP/elbows/knees etc have on the associated defensive ability could take quite some playing around with to get right.

 

A decision will need to be taken about aptitudes as well: either they actually do need to mean something (affecting in-fight utilisation of skills or skill caps for training) or be scrapped. I'd probably prefer that they were done away with as it makes the game more straightforward and these changes would hopefully provide sufficient variety as it is.

 

Ageing is the other key point. I still feel strongly that fighter decline should become unavoidable, and take a noticeable effect. You've obviously not thrown in numbers to your explanation, but it implies (to me, at least) that it'd be quite a gradual process. I'd personally like another hidden added called "Longevity" that affected how far either side of a mean a fighter hit his deterioration point. I'd go with quite a small window, say like 28-32, with 30 being the mean (so hidden of 75 meaning deterioration point of 30 - I'd say all existing fighters set as default to begin declining at 30, any that are already older: congratulations, but you'd start declining now). The speed of decline to then be based on age past deterioration point and career accumulated injuries, with injuries being the more significant factor. This should then actually make the injuries hidden relevant because otherwise it remains totally unimportant. It shouldn't be like falling off a cliff initially, but should build up significantly (exponentially even with a bad enough injury history) over time. I know that some will think a standard deterioration point of 30 seems young but remember this is the standard across all of the fighter population, and with the right conditions still allows for fighters to only begin dropping at 32 and then slowly at that if they have a good injury hidden.

[DeadlyDirk]

From what I understand even now with the ticker system fighters were never meant to be able to get over that 80%ish total average mark anyways. So anyone who's over that level right now basically just got a free pass since the ticker system failed to do what it was meant to do (at least after it was toned down because it was "too unpopular even though it was crucial to the system working" as Mike said) So really you will just be losing points you were never meant to have. That's the way I see it anyways. The proposed new system is just a less annoying way to maintain your fighters at all levels in my opinion.

 

Yeh I get that bit and don't really have a problem with the guys over 80% suffering losses. I just don't particularly want my guys who are at say 70-75% to have to now go down to 65-70%

[Guest]

I dont know why you dont just make a comprimise for the better of the game to keep people from quiting again. Cap everything at 90% until age 32 or older. Then have age kick in randomly to different guys and start dropping. Once it kicks in the older you get the worse you get. Seems like a fair comprimise to everyone.

 

This way guys who are at 90% dont get pissed and leave. People get their declines so guys do not dominate forever. Its semi realistic as many fighters begin to drop off around 32-35. I think its time everyone realizes the tickers are gonna kill this game the harder they are dropping guys. JUst let poeple get thir 90% and have age play a roll later on. To me thats fair and wont kill the game. At this point if there is another mass exodus on the tickers this baby is done.

[topologies]

I dont know why you dont just make a comprimise for the better of the game to keep people from quiting again. Cap everything at 90% until age 32 or older. Then have age kick in randomly to different guys and start dropping. Once it kicks in the older you get the worse you get. Seems like a fair comprimise to everyone.

 

This way guys who are at 90% dont get pissed and leave. People get their declines so guys do not dominate forever. Its semi realistic as many fighters begin to drop off around 32-35. I think its time everyone realizes the tickers are gonna kill this game the harder they are dropping guys. JUst let poeple get thir 90% and have age play a roll later on. To me thats fair and wont kill the game. At this point if there is another mass exodus on the tickers this baby is done.

Definitely agree on this one. Although it doesn't resolve the "everybody looks the same at the top" issue. If everybody could just agree on something that would reduce the gap between striker w/ grappling and grappler w/ striking then we will see the variety in builds. As I see it the top fighters are forced to be strikers since it is the easier way to win if not the only way to win. If we could do this then people would realize that you can succeed with a grappler and makes it a viable build to base your fighter with. Going back to what Bankrup proposed this will show the peek and degradation of fighters who has achieved the top and makes it more interesting who can reach and dominate the p4p rankings longest.

[JLP]

Truthfully, if these changes were to be implemented I'd prefer a re-start. The same crybabies calling for veteran managers' fighters to be nerfed while theirs are untouched are not going to be satisfied when they are still not performing like they think they should.

 

If Mike meant for it to be this way we should just re-start the whole game and really be fair. I'm kind of sick of the bitching and excuse making. Let's just start over because we know the cry-babies will never be satisfied as long as they have any excuse to cling to.

[dcm]

I liked a couple ideas and I really liked the solution (all of it).

The idea of a hidden that plays a hole in your max skill % sounds nice, like from 78-82%.

[minark]

Truthfully, if these changes were to be implemented I'd prefer a re-start. The same crybabies calling for veteran managers' fighters to be nerfed while theirs are untouched are not going to be satisfied when they are still not performing like they think they should.

 

If Mike meant for it to be this way we should just re-start the whole game and really be fair. I'm kind of sick of the bitching and excuse making. Let's just start over because we know the cry-babies will never be satisfied as long as they have any excuse to cling to.

 

I would love a restart as well. Unfortunately, I don't think it's ever going to happen. It'd be a great chance to add more skills and get a lot more depth into the game then there is even now. Don't get me wrong, I love the game otherwise I would have left a long time ago, but with a new chance to add skills, this whole problem would be solved. Just add in a bunch more skills and people would have to start picking and choosing what to train instead of being all around elites. Problem is then people would want the game sped up so they can then be all elite in the new skills. For some odd reason I'll never understand, people want it sped up now and they want a random retirement with shorter in game years. If you ask me, that sounds exactly like MMArmy which is a terrible game IMO.

[Rambo]

I dont know why you dont just make a comprimise for the better of the game to keep people from quiting again. Cap everything at 90% until age 32 or older. Then have age kick in randomly to different guys and start dropping. Once it kicks in the older you get the worse you get. Seems like a fair comprimise to everyone.

 

This way guys who are at 90% dont get pissed and leave. People get their declines so guys do not dominate forever. Its semi realistic as many fighters begin to drop off around 32-35. I think its time everyone realizes the tickers are gonna kill this game the harder they are dropping guys. JUst let poeple get thir 90% and have age play a roll later on. To me thats fair and wont kill the game. At this point if there is another mass exodus on the tickers this baby is done.

 

 

I agree with most of this. Capping it off around 90% would be more realistic, but I think the deteriation needs to happen within 9-14 years after creation depending on their injury hidden. Basing it off the injury hidden and the injury hidden alone is the easiest way to do it and makes the most sense since it's already an existing hidden nobody needs a new randomly generated hidden roll. It makes Never Gets Injured worth selecting.

 

 

I don't agree that it would kill the game. But I'm not 100% in favor of the proposed ticker replacements and would be pretty pissed if my fighters lost stats over night without at least 2 months notice.

[762x39]

As the system is now, everyone has the same chance to build there fighters the way they want. Everyone has tickers to deal with. I just dont see how it is fare to those of us with older skilled fighters, to get our skills cut just so some new guy can try and keep up with there 21 year old. Just keep building them like we have, if you are outskilled sign to a different ORG. I will admit I bitched when the tickers started, but it has not been that bad. I will try the changes. But I have put a lot of work into my fighters, and most are ground guys, so I fear it will be wasted. I just hope this is not what finaly drives me from the game.

[PBR]

a restart is just crazy -- what are you gonna do restart the game every yr or something cause there will always be newer managers / members joining and not having top guys then will start crying waiting a restart -- i think thats a lame idea just cause when someone doesnt feel like climbing their way up they will just say its time to restart -- i much rather have skills cut across then restart -- but thats just me

[minark]

I agree with most of this. Capping it off around 90% would be more realistic

 

I don't really like a cap of 90% but I definitely understand the argument. I'd be pissed if my guys I worked hard on for years get nerfed and everyone else gets a free pass because they're less skilled.

 

Personally, I don't think there is one right or wrong to this problem and I honestly don't think there's a solution that's fair to everyone. I really just think Mike should go with his heart and make the decision he feels is right at this point, because no matter what the change is someone is going to freak out.

[PBR]

I don't really like a cap of 90% but I definitely understand the argument. I'd be pissed if my guys I worked hard on for years get nerfed and everyone else gets a free pass because they're less skilled.

 

this isnt the case though -- no one is getting a free pass unless you just recently created a guy or less than 50% say -- fighters below 80% are gonna take hit also

I would like to bring down the top guy to 80% and reduce the other fighters' skills by less and less as you go down the total skills. We could pick a point below which no decrease would occur, e.g. 50% / 75 points, then work down as follows (numbers are rounded up / down a bit).

 

that makes it as fair as you can -- so its everyone not just above 80%

[minark]

a restart is just crazy -- what are you gonna do restart the game every yr or something cause there will always be newer managers / members joining and not having top guys then will start crying waiting a restart -- i think thats a lame idea just cause when someone doesnt feel like climbing their way up they will just say its time to restart

 

A restart that I'm talking about has nothing to do with new managers catching up, it has to do with adding skills into the game allowing for no need for tickers and making it so people can't just train everything to elite levels. I know it's a crazy idea and I know it's never going to happen, but I think as a whole it would be good for the game. As a member who has built some highly skilled fighters, it would suck losing everything I've worked for and I'm sure many would quit over it, so as a solution I realize it won't work and it's really not a reasonable option. But I still think in terms of dealing with this issue, it would be effective.

[minark]

this isnt the case though -- no one is getting a free pass unless you just recently created a guy or less than 50% say -- fighters below 80% are gonna take hit also

 

 

I understand that, and that to me is fair. But others don't seem to think so apparently. I would be fine with taking the hit with all my fighters if it gets rid of tickers.

[PBR]

A restart that I'm talking about has nothing to do with new managers catching up, it has to do with adding skills into the game allowing for no need for tickers and making it so people can't just train everything to elite levels. I know it's a crazy idea and I know it's never going to happen, but I think as a whole it would be good for the game. As a member who has built some highly skilled fighters, it would suck losing everything I've worked for and I'm sure many would quit over it, so as a solution I realize it won't work and it's really not a reasonable option. But I still think in terms of dealing with this issue, it would be effective.

well honestly new skills could be added anytime -- cause for one everyone will be starting out at 0 on that skill so to add new skills a restart wouldnt be needed

[PBR]

I understand that, and that to me is fair. But others don't seem to think so apparently. I would be fine with taking the hit with all my fighters if it gets rid of tickers.

okay was just making sure cause a lot seem to take it only the above 80% are getting hit when its not true -- myself i am fine with tickers or fine with new system -- i will adapt and overcome any system in place -- i think some were just missing the point thinking their guy at 78% is gonna be right there with the fighter at 90% after this when that simply isnt true -- and some of the guys above 80% are thinking or feeling its only them getting hit when its not -- its a fair sliding scale across all fighters

[Guest]

Starting over would kill the game for sure. Poeple would get pissed and quit in a heart beat. If that were the case, leaving the game as is and working on a 2.0 woudl be better. Then releasing it when finished. Giving people time to prepare.

 

In the liong run this may be the only solution, but that doesnt fix the ticker issue. To me a start over of any kind is a whole seperate issue.

[minark]

well honestly new skills could be added anytime -- cause for one everyone will be starting out at 0 on that skill so to add new skills a restart wouldnt be needed

 

That's true. I would love to see that happen. There are a lot of skills that could be added, I just don't think Mike wants to even check that road as an option due to all the backlash people would give about the 32 year old they have starting at 1 while all the newcomers get to train theirs up on a fresh guy.

 

Honestly, I'm just ready for a change. I had a month or so long absence from the game and I've just had such a hard time getting back into it. I haven't checked my training even on a weekly basis for probably a month or two. I think a change will help freshen things up a bit and give me something to relearn.

[JLP]

I'd prefer to not have a restart, but from the thread many new managers want to have veteran managers nerfed while they escape unscathed. I would prefer a restart to that. The sad fact is those same managers,a year from now, are going to still be insisting that the reason they are not great managers is due to some unfair advantage. So what they are saying is "my effort should be maintained. your effort (because you started earlier) is unfair and should be nerfed." Anyone else see the problem with this?

 

In my opinion, if nerfs happen, they need to hit every fighter above the 25 year old new creation level. Let the effect hit every manager so all can feel the pain.

[PBR]

I'd prefer to not have a restart, but from the thread many new managers want to have veteran managers nerfed while they escape unscathed. I would prefer a restart to that. The sad fact is those same managers,a year from now, are going to still be insisting that the reason they are not great managers is due to some unfair advantage. So what they are saying is "my effort should be maintained. your effort (because you started earlier) is unfair and should be nerfed." Anyone else see the problem with this?

 

In my opinion, if nerfs happen, they need to hit every fighter above the 25 year old new creation level. Let the effect hit every manager so all can feel the pain.

thats my point on it -- you do a restart and in 6 months new managers are gonna want another restart and so on -- that is a nightmare situation -- on second part though new managers arent getting by unscathed -- i dont know what a new 25 year old starts at with % of total skills but like i mentioned couple times fighters below 80% are getting nerfed too -- now down to what % we go is something we should be discussing -- i have a fighter right at the 50% mark mike mentions and i will paste / copy his skills below -- now we could go even more down to 30% or whatever is decided on

 

http://www.mmatycoon.com/fighterprofilemanager.php?FID=188132

Boxing Strong(4)+

Muay Thai Proficient(2)+

Wrestling Respectable(3)-

BJJ Competent(7)+

 

Agility Superb(4)+

Flexibility Superb(0)--

Speed Exceptional(13)++

Strength Superb(1)++

Conditioning Exceptional(11)++

Balance Strong(7)++

 

Punches Remarkable(5)+

Kicks Useless(17)++

Elbows Abysmal(1)--

Knees Abysmal(1)--

Clinchwork Proficient(1)-

Striking Defense Remarkable(4)++

Ground n Pound Useless(17)--

Takedown Off Useless(17)++

Takedown Def Remarkable(2)--

Submissions Abysmal(7)--

Defensive Grap Remarkable(5)--

 

 

this guy below here would end up getting hit cause he is almost 53 -- both these fighters are 19 yrs old

 

http://www.mmatycoon.com/fighterprofilemanager.php?FID=186110

Boxing Strong(4)+

Muay Thai Strong(6)-

Wrestling Strong(0)--

BJJ Proficient(12)--

 

Agility Superb(3)-

Flexibility Strong(4)-

Speed Exceptional(16)+

Strength Strong(1)+

Conditioning Exceptional(11)+

Balance Strong(4)-

 

Punches Remarkable(4)--

Kicks Superb(20)--

Elbows Useless(20)-

Knees Useless(20)-

Clinchwork Mediocre(4)-

Striking Defense Wonderful(2)--

Ground n Pound Useless(20)-

Takedown Off Abysmal(0)--

Takedown Def Remarkable(0)-

Submissions Abysmal(14)+

Defensive Grap Remarkable(12)--

 

i think the 50% mark is a good one to go to

 

 

went ahead and posted the fighters -- i dont care if anyone knows my fighters skills i have always shared them really

[minark]

Those look like reasonable skills. I don't think he should be nerfed. So I'd say cut off at 50-55% would be fine.

[PBR]

Those look like reasonable skills. I don't think he should be nerfed. So I'd say cut off at 50-55% would be fine.

yea even the nerf on the second one would be so small -- just guessing but probably .5% if that once your down that far on the scale -- couple days training maybe

 

 

now like most others i would like to choose certain skills to nerf more or whatever to reach the numbers i need but i also see that as being almost impossible to do cause that would probably include mike having to do everyones manually which is just impossible so i see it having to be across the board skill -- best thing is maybe start training unwanted skills so the nerf gets smaller on wanted skills if you have some very low or useless