Ticker Replacements

[PBR]

CKeppelrun, on 08 November 2012 - 04:26 PM, said: & won't end with jacky & ed alternating blogs about how miserable the game is every month.

 

whats funny somewhat is edfan had been crying forever about speeding up training -- now an about face turn saying no dont speed up training -- sort of crazy

[Warwynd]

What Edsfan is instead advocating in this thread is a clever way of saying let's speed up the game time. Something I am adamantly opposed to.

[Guest]

Just taking the adding of two skills as a separate point. Do people not think that having these two extra skills in the form of transitions and escapes makes the game better in itself? In itself I do mean when combined with a skill cap, so that people have to pick and choose between a wider variety of skills.

 

I believe it will make the game better in itself. Strikers will have to learn transitions and escapes, because once in the ground they will have to know those skills, otherwise they will be killed by grapplers. So, I believe this will fix the gap between strikers and grapplers. And it is a solution to have more skills, making easier the transition of some fighters to the 80% concept. Also, we will have more ways to build our fighters. In short: I'm all for the addition of these two extra skills in the form of transitions and escapes!

[minark]

Just taking the adding of two skills as a separate point. Do people not think that having these two extra skills in the form of transitions and escapes makes the game better in itself? In itself I do mean when combined with a skill cap, so that people have to pick and choose between a wider variety of skills.

 

The fact alone that you're evening out a self admitted overpowered skill should be enough to answer this question. I don't see how people think this hurts the game. I keep seeing people fight it but the only excuse I've seen not to do it is that we have enough skills as it is which I just don't think outweighs the advantages of what this will bring.

[PBR]

The fact alone that you're evening out a self admitted overpowered skill should be enough to answer this question. I don't see how people think this hurts the game. I keep seeing people fight it but the only excuse I've seen not to do it is that we have enough skills as it is which I just don't think outweighs the advantages of what this will bring.

 

i think it is some people afraid to lose the grasp they have on the system now -- adding skills adds different setting possibilities -- thus some losing the grasp they have now is part of it also

[Snowman]

So... back to THE TICKER DISCUSSION. haha tangents... more maintenance on physicals, none on primaries, and secondaries, other than that all these caomparisons to real life... first off it IS a game it can only be what it is. But as far as the realism... effective strikers hold almost all th belts at the moment, the occasional grappler or brawler will shine for a moment then dissapear, fans like stand up fights, so if your fighter keeps it standing their popularity goes up they get better fights and so on, so i am starting to think it is great the way it is. besides physicals, physicals I say!!!

[Goatacre]

Adding two new skills would be a great fix.

 

I don't think it'd work in the way CK suggests (strikers neglecting to add escapes etc when given the one-off chance to redistribute secondaries) and simply rely on ref stand-ups. That would be far too big a risk as it just requires a tweak to the game engine and their fighters would be screwed with useless escapes and no room to manoeuvre against the skill cap.

[MMATycoon]

Adding two new skills would be a great fix.

 

I don't think it'd work in the way CK suggests (strikers neglecting to add escapes etc when given the one-off chance to redistribute secondaries) and simply rely on ref stand-ups. That would be far too big a risk as it just requires a tweak to the game engine and their fighters would be screwed with useless escapes and no room to manoeuvre against the skill cap.

Just to clarify / emphasise, they wouldn't be screwed because they could still train these skills - the points would just come off their other skills to build up that "escapes" value.

[Guest]

Just the Judo Specialism, Hidden or Primary Whatever it is would make me a Happy Dude.

[Guest]

What Edsfan is instead advocating in this thread is a clever way of saying let's speed up the game time. Something I am adamantly opposed to.

why?

[DeadlyDirk]

Just taking the adding of two skills as a separate point. Do people not think that having these two extra skills in the form of transitions and escapes makes the game better in itself? In itself I do mean when combined with a skill cap, so that people have to pick and choose between a wider variety of skills.

 

That's what I've been thinking since you first suggested it, it will make people think about fighter building a little more again and freshen things up. Still think out of all the suggestions this is the best route to go down in terms of creating fighter diversity. You simply won't have enough points to cover everything and will finally have to choose between being a well rounded Wonderful/Exceptional guy or specialising in a few areas knowing that you're going to be a bit weaker in certain situations.

[Eveas]

Escapes is an awesome idea. I think over all Mike has had a ton of input to the point that many of us are just repeating what has already been said. I believe I trust him enough to put the proper thought into a great update. It seems we are on the right page and there really isn't that much more to add. I hope the programming can start soon.

[Warwynd]

why?

 

Because I like the slower pace of the game. I think most of us do. I would not be terribly opposed to a speed up of the training, but I don't think it is neccesary per se. I do think that the difference between public gyms and private gyms is still too wide, but that is another topic altogether. Speeding up the game speed though means that we lose training time. What you are talking about is not just speeding up the game year. Doubling the speed at which our fighters age, in fact, but also increasing training by a factor of two as well. What you are suggesting would effectively quadruple training speed but halve the fighters life in game.

 

I am opposed to anything faster than 12 = 1 year in every case because it makes it even harder to make gains like the older players and fighters had access to. You are talking aout a doubling of the training speed on top of it and I say... why? I don't want my fighters to go from 18 years old to 30 years old in 1 and a half years. The pace is too fast. We need to scout for fights and find the right orgs to fight for, train our fighters up and a host of other things. All this to say nothing of the fact that so many other things trigger off of the game speed. Like the amount of time it takes to recover from a fight. Your energy gets wiped out in a fight and you are looking at two weeks real time before you can even start training again. That would be 4 months game time! I think it is already pretty long at two weeks. I understand why it's there. So that people don't fight five times in a week or what have you, but I think it is fairly unrealistic to think that it takes two months to rest after a 15-25 minute fight.

 

At least the proposal you put forward does accelerate training speeds along with the shortened year, I just don't like the rushed pace.

[Lefty]

omfg this is getting majorly annoying to read the newest developments on this thread only to have like an entire whole page of posts added as i am reading!

anyways, if we are going to add a new skill, and it seems like we only rly need one then idk what the use of 2 would be (i guess mike has decided that mathematically 2 is the "only" equation to fix the problem right now). escapes seems like a one dimensional skill to be adding and there should be defensive grappling and offensive grappling. offensive grappling would cover advancing positions/reversing(guess u could call it transitioning if u want to make it sound more one dimensional) as well as the possibility of improved ground offense in gnp and subs. def grappling would be defending gnp and subs as well as maintaining ur position. im not opposed to adding transitions but the names are really putting me off and making the skills proposed sound like theres things being left out. the idea of adding escapes is kinda weird to me. u get someone to the ground and he can just escape. if u take someone down, u will most likely be landing in their guard most of the time. if ur in someones guard then in order to get up they will need to get their leg onto ur hip/leg and push off and get up from there. to me thats a form of advancing position to escape. it makes sense. the guy on top needs to use his offensive grappling against ur defensive grappling to advance past ur guard. if u want to reverse it and try to get on top u will need to use ur offensive grapple against his defensive grapple to get on top. if u want to get up from the bottom i think thats like advancing position and its using ur offensive grappling to escape from there. if you start getting gnp from the top ur def grapple skill defends that or if he throws a sub same thing.

 

now i should say that i only have like 4 fighters out of 20 that are more ground oriented so this effects me a lot less than u might think. im not just saying screw escapes because all my fighters are ground takedown artists who sub and gnp and whatever the gosh darn hootnanny u want to be hollerin about. it just doesnt seem right just like umpteen ppl said on previous pages, that u can get a guy to the ground work him into mount and he just *poof* escapes. it would be like magically amazing and awesome and i would love it more than twinkies with ketchup but it doesnt seem very good for ground fighters and even though mikes getting annoyed by this: it isnt realistic and it wouldnt happen in (oh no) REAL LIFE. (sorry i had to bring up real life)

 

god im tired idk why i read all this crap on the forums.....

 

ok another thing i want to mention before i pass out is i would rather have this 80% cap thing and have ppl brought down if they are over it. that seems way simpler than adding 2 new skills.

2 new skills makes my head hurt.

ow

[Lefty]

ok and before a thousand angry bjj afficionados jump down my throat or rather grab my throat and make me pass out, ill try to add what i didnt put in here. from guard i guess in addition to putting ur leg onto his hip/leg and pushing off u also need to keep his hands from holding u and do all the tasty gay action to get up from the ground. please dont kimura me!

[MMATycoon]

that u can get a guy to the ground work him into mount and he just *poof* escapes. it would be like magically amazing and awesome and i would love it more than twinkies with ketchup but it doesnt seem very good for ground fighters and even though mikes getting annoyed by this: it isnt realistic and it wouldnt happen in (oh no) REAL LIFE. (sorry i had to bring up real life)

Why on earth would it work like that?

 

We already calculate escapes now... we just use defensive grappling. Instead of looking at defensive grappling we would look at the new escapes value. Nothing else would change. It would be exactly the same level of difficulty to stand up as it is now, if you had the same value for escapes as you did for your current value in defensive grappling.

 

Of course, if people think that difficulty needs to be dialled down or up, we can do that, but that's a totally different point.

[Warwynd]

Why on earth would it work like that?

 

We already calculate escapes now... we just use defensive grappling. Instead of looking at defensive grappling we would look at the new escapes value. Nothing else would change. It would be exactly the same level of difficulty to stand up as it is now, if you had the same value for escapes as you did for your current value in defensive grappling.

 

Of course, if people think that difficulty needs to be dialled down or up, we can do that, but that's a totally different point.

 

I don't see any of the proposed changes even affecting slider settings. Just where the engine looks to resolve it.

[PBR]

I don't see any of the proposed changes even affecting slider settings. Just where the engine looks to resolve it.

 

thats the evening out stand up vs ground fighter part -- making stand up fighter have escapes as too where ground fighter could choose not to or not have very high cause most ground fighters would rather just defensive grappling to transition

[Italscratch]

Quick question

 

If standup fighter has ok escapes and only decent grappling, he could be grapplef***ed [more open to transitions i mean] so that higher level grapplers could get the edge? I mean, he would need high escapes and at least some kind of, lets say, eg. wonderful [offensive,defensive whatever] grappling in order to compete on the ground a bit, nevermind the escapes secondary as meaning of totally breaking ground game [outside of ref standup]?

 

Did I understood it right? If i did,

 

seems fine with me. That would need incorporation [as i understood, it's already there] of ground position in regard how successful escape can be? Would eg. superb escapes / exceptional grappling be viable to get yourself into top guard (from down guard position] and stand from it? How would he fare to standup from half guard? Could sensational escape / superb grappling standup easily from under side position? Mount? Half guard? How high would be % of success? These are the questions on which we, the player base, dont have the answers. And will need to find out, leading to some uncertain fights for a while. Adjusting to the fight system change i mean.

 

Further, if things are to change and we get a chance to assign skills into these two new skills [from our already available skill poll, if i understood it right?] only once; we still dont have quite a clue how it will turn out. In some length of time, we, as a player base, will aquire knowledge what combo have the edge somehow, and people that set those things right, in time when change got implemented, by luck, will get the upper hand. Other will be left behind. Just a food for thought.

Or system will be so perfect that there is equal opportunity to be grappler and force a ref standup or escape succesfully from top position, or Cro cop/Liddell stuff when people are standing because, fuck it, we are that bad.

 

I do like sound of it, but this only covers ground game, not the ticker issue.

 

Whatever happens , I would like to thank Mike on great game engine that's already in there, we are here just because that we want to make it even better. I've played lot of MUD in my student age, and I'm no stranger to text based games, but i have to admit this one truly amazes me with it's depth via training, sliders, hiddens and randomness [not even touching business side of the game, orgs, nutrition, etc]. Sometimes I hate it so much I would quit in an instant, as time passes my steam blews off and I learn some new things. I learn about my fighters hiddens and their ability to follow certain sliders despite almost similar primary and secondary setup of another one in my stable. And then, you have fights where your guy just miracleously pulls the upset, make comeback from fairy land despite you fucking up his sliders. Fights because of what you love this game as it is. Not completely under your control.

 

Man I'm stoned...

[Warwynd]

thats the evening out stand up vs ground fighter part -- making stand up fighter have escapes as too where ground fighter could choose not to or not have very high cause most ground fighters would rather just defensive grappling to transition

 

Yeah... that was what I was getting at.

[Guest]

adding two skills will create more problem than solve some in my opinion, ground fighters will need more skills. Training will be slower.

 

No, it will help ground guys. Ground guys don't need escapes--but they will need transitions...standup guys will need both.

[MMATycoon]

Quick question

 

If standup fighter has ok escapes and only decent grappling, he could be grapplef***ed [more open to transitions i mean] so that higher level grapplers could get the edge? I mean, he would need high escapes and at least some kind of, lets say, eg. wonderful [offensive,defensive whatever] grappling in order to compete on the ground a bit, nevermind the escapes secondary as meaning of totally breaking ground game [outside of ref standup]?

 

Did I understood it right?

Yeah you would still need some primaries and unless he was in guard, he'd need to have some transitions / defensive grappling to get to a position to get back to his feet. Hope the comedown is OK

[MMATycoon]

adding two skills will create more problem than solve some in my opinion, ground fighters will need more skills. Training will be slower.

We'd likely speed up training a bit, not slow it down.

[Lefty]

Ok so i was being a bit sensational there talking about a guy popping up from being mouted thats not rly realistic.

But If we are To include an escapes skill for standup fighters to me this is not very realistic. If u look at real life, when fighters are imroving their ground game they are learning how to defend submissions/ gnp and reverse guys and improve positions rather than just getting up at all costs and escaping altogether. I dont think i have ever seen a fighter talking in his pre fight video about "yeah i been working on my bjj a lot: u know escaping and running away giving up my back and gettin the fight standing at all costs" i usually hear them saying things more along the lines of: "yeah i been working on my ground game a lot and if he thinks he can submit me or he thinks he can pound me out hes got another thing coming cuz im a lot different than in the "--" fight, i've become a better fighter since then and i might just sub him."  As far as im concerened they are lookng to play the same game as their opponent when they are training their ground game and not training bjj/ wrestling just so they can escape. Theyre looking to train with good ground guys so they can hold theyre own not run away from the ground. Dont get me wrong here i love a good standup war but if were going To try to develop the ground game, adding an escapes skill for standup fighters is just not very realistic. 

Getting to the feet isnt something any fighter no matter his background should try to do at least not solely because thats a bit too predictable. If u train the ground game u train how to improve positions and reverse u train how to defend the gnp and submissions or u train how to do that to others. Standing up is something u should have the option to do but should be based on ur position and how good u r at the ground game. As far as im concerned it should be a standup skill and not considered a wrestlin or bjj skill. Basically it shouldnt exist lol.

Adding transitions makes sense to me and it should include escaping the ground. Thats what i think. 

Maybe we could combine the 2 top ideas atm and add only one skill and lower the skill cap over night by a slightly higher figure then previously suggested? 2 skills is a bit too much i think. Or maybe just think of another skill.

[DavyJones]

I couldn't disagree more, there are a bunch of fighters that excel at escapes and either use it to get back on top or just to keep the fight on the feet at all costs. It happens all the time.