Ticker Replacements

[MMATycoon]

The problem with soyster's solution is that it probably takes a real life 1-2 years to play out before everyone over 80% total skill retires. For that entire time you have people above the soft cap who cannot be reached. This is not an acceptable solution when we have equally logical and much fairer solutions on offer.

 

As for Escapes already being included in what we have now, yes, obviously they are. Everything in the whole world of MMA has to be included and calculated from one of the existing skills so I don't get that point at all.

 

 

 

We have several things that people complain about and want fixed. Some of you seem intent on fighting against killing two birds with one stone. We have a simple solution proposed where we add skills that will help even up the ground game AND decrease total skill points, in turn increasing variation between fighters. If you fight against that change here, there will just have to be a different change elsewhere to deal with the other issue... Proposing a simpler solution that doesn't deal with the other problems isn't overall any more simple - it just delays a different improvement (evening up the ground game) and probably makes that other improvement more complicated and harder to do.

[minark]

The problem with soyster's solution is that it probably takes a real life 1-2 years to play out before everyone over 80% total skill retires. For that entire time you have people above the soft cap who cannot be reached. This is not an acceptable solution when we have equally logical and much fairer solutions on offer.

 

As for Escapes already being included in what we have now, yes, obviously they are. Everything in the whole world of MMA has to be included and calculated from one of the existing skills so I don't get that point at all.

 

 

 

We have several things that people complain about and want fixed. Some of you seem intent on fighting against killing two birds with one stone. We have a simple solution proposed where we add skills that will help even up the ground game AND decrease total skill points, in turn increasing variation between fighters. If you fight against that change here, there will just have to be a different change elsewhere to deal with the other issue... Proposing a simpler solution that doesn't deal with the other problems isn't overall any more simple - it just delays a different improvement (evening up the ground game) and probably makes that other improvement more complicated and harder to do.

 

So just for clarification, with escapes we would be basically splitting defensive grappling up right? We would take escapes completely out of defensive grappling and leave defensive grappling for ground control and transitioning and then escapes would be in a category of its own? As long as I'm understanding that right, I really don't see a problem for that. A striker will absolutely need escapes in order to get the fight back to the feet. Some ground fighters will need escapes if they want to be able to get back to standing, but if they just want to better their position and work on the ground, that's what defensive grappling, GnP and subs would be for.

 

It makes complete sense to me. I'd love to come up with a second skill, but it seems the combinations idea didn't go over that well. I'll just keep trying to think of ideas and throw them out there and maybe eventually one will stick.

 

**Edit - Any chance you have an idea on a second skill Mike? I know you're trying to stay out of it and be impartial but not many people have come up with other skill ideas so I guess now is as good a time as any to have some input.

[Rambo]

soyster89 comments are fine but still doesnt get the 90% down to 80% or the other fighters about 80% down below it does it? -- thus the reason to add 2 new skills -- what skills would like to see added -- instead of downing everyone elses idea come up with one -- personally i dont care if any skill is added and i rather just take a cut on my fighters skills but some dont want that to happen so two skills have to be added to achieve the % mark

 

What's wrong with 80%? What's wrong with 87%? If something aint broke, don't fix it.

Agility Elite(39)+ Flexibility Sensational(31)+ Speed Elite(23)- Strength Sensational(92)+ Conditioning Elite(33)+ Balance Sensational(25)++ Punches Sensational(26)++ Kicks Exceptional(62)++ Elbows Respectable(17)-- Knees Sensational(10)-- Clinchwork Elite(8)-- Striking Defense Sensational(26)++ Ground n Pound Sensational(12)-- Takedown Off Exceptional(14)- Takedown Def Remarkable(48)+ Submissions Sensational(1)-- Defensive Grap Exceptional(43)++

 

I don't see anything wrong or unrealistic with those stats. It's taken 10-11 in game years and 3 IRL years to get there, so it didn't happen over night. If I did my math right (primaries not included here, but added to the equation) this fighter is around 86% total skill points. Yeah I get that adding skills will allow me to keep those stats, but the whole process doesn't seem necessary. If we weren't suppose to have stats that high, why let us get there in the first place. Maybe adding skills balances that out, but it seems like much more trouble than it's worth. Is there really that much wrong with a 90% skill cap like BankRupt suggested? It takes IRL years to get there... that's a long fuckin time man. Most managers don't last a month. There needs to be some reward for that.

 

Agility Elite(67)++ Flexibility Sensational(40)++ Speed Elite(39)++ Strength Elite(38)+ Conditioning Elite(52)+ Balance Elite(25)- Punches Elite(84)++ Kicks Elite(14)-- Elbows Mediocre(13)+ Knees Respectable(20)+ Clinchwork Elite(14)- Striking Defense Elite(45)+ Ground n Pound Competent(39)- Takedown Off Mediocre(41)++ Takedown Def Exceptional(66)++ Submissions Feeble(47)+ Defensive Grap Exceptional(9)--

 

Primaries not included here, this fighter is around 82% total skill points. To tell me that his skills need to be reduced, or you need to add another skill that he'll be rather useless in because he's got too many skill points already, makes no sense. Better off playing the UFC video games (or one of the hundred much more entertaining and instant gratification games out there) than investing the time into this. Don't wanna hear people's shit for that comment. 3+ years, 36 IRL months, to get there.

 

The problem with soyster's solution is that it probably takes a real life 1-2 years to play out before everyone over 80% total skill retires. For that entire time you have people above the soft cap who cannot be reached. This is not an acceptable solution when we have equally logical and much fairer solutions on offer.

 

As for Escapes already being included in what we have now, yes, obviously they are. Everything in the whole world of MMA has to be included and calculated from one of the existing skills so I don't get that point at all.

 

 

 

We have several things that people complain about and want fixed. Some of you seem intent on fighting against killing two birds with one stone. We have a simple solution proposed where we add skills that will help even up the ground game AND decrease total skill points, in turn increasing variation between fighters. If you fight against that change here, there will just have to be a different change elsewhere to deal with the other issue... Proposing a simpler solution that doesn't deal with the other problems isn't overall any more simple - it just delays a different improvement (evening up the ground game) and probably makes that other improvement more complicated and harder to do.

 

Soyster's suggestion, from my impression of it, would slowly push those fighters above the 80% skill cap down towards it. Even though I disagree with the 80% skill cap it seems like a logical solution if that's what you wanted to do.

 

Adding Escapes doesn't seem right if it's already recovered. If there needs to be an improvement to escaping from the ground, it sounds like that's something to do with the fight engine, right? Instead of trying to add a secondary (since escapes/sweeps are covered by defensive grappling) why not add a physical? Reflexes - or is that covered by speed/agility and/or striking defense? You said that all aspects of MMA are covered by the current secondaries *

 

Questions:

Are you going to increase training speed?

Are you going to overhaul the ground game?

Are you going to change referee stand up frequency?

 

 

Soyster's idea will push the fighters over the skill cap towards it without doing it overnight, and push the older fighters towards retirement. Like Soyster and PBR, I'd prefer just doing what you intended on doing and decreasing skills overnight before adding new skills.

 

I don't like this idea of "escape" as a new skill. If the idea is to create a new ground skill in order to fix the gap between strikers and grapplers, what about to create something more specialized and that we still do not have in the game?

 

I mean, the "escape" idea was always part of the defensive grappling skill, at least the way most people think about defensive grappling, no? So I don't see a point in create a skill that will does something that it is already perfectly covered by other skill (defensive grap).

 

 

If you're going to remove escapes from defensive grappling, you might as well completely break that defensive grappling skill down and make all individual aspects related to defensive grappling seperate skills.

 

 

A striker will absolutely need escapes in order to get the fight back to the feet. Some ground fighters will need escapes if they want to be able to get back to standing, but if they just want to better their position and work on the ground, that's what defensive grappling, GnP and subs would be for.

 

 

Why escape (gonna be a high risk manuever) when you can control and the ref will eventually stand it up? - because most people are clueless on the ground, and it's easy to force ref stand ups against them. If they knew what they were doing, they could counter that tactic.

 

I'd like to see how it plays out. Somebody with Elite escapes popping up out of mount or side control on a regular basis?

 

 

For me it comes down to, if it aint broke don't fix it, and I don't see anything wrong with fighters under a 90% skill cap.

 

 

Honestly adding escapes benefits me big time unless you make some changes to how the ground game and referee stand up frequency works. My fighters get to keep their skills, and all of them will have damn near useless escapes, because none of them need to get off the ground.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway... I've repeated myself more than a broken record. I've got a headache from re-reading what I type. Change outside of the fight engine is alarming to me. You're gonna do what you're gonna do with the game, and that's fine. That's how it should be. It's your baby, raise it how you want to. For those who don't like it will either deal with it and adapt, or move on.

[MMATycoon]

@minark, that's how I would see it, yes.

 

As for my personal choice of a second skill, I liked the idea of splitting subs into chokes and locks. I like the idea of transitions as a skill. At the moment there isn't really an offensive secondary skill for passing guard / sweeps etc. For countering and preventing it from happening there is defensive grappling, which is a very overpowered skill as is, because it is used for GNP defense, sub defense, transition defense, counters, preventing someone from getting up.

 

If we had a transitions skill that could be used more clearly as the offensive secondary. We could also use it for countering. That would leave defensive grappling mostly as a control skill for stopping GNP and sub defense and we could use it maybe 70:30 with transitions for preventing someone from advancing their position.

[MMATycoon]

For me it comes down to, if it aint broke don't fix it, and I don't see anything wrong with fighters under a 90% skill cap.

This is where I struggle with your posts. I think (and I think most people think) that it's pretty rubbish having fighters that high, so it definitely needs something doing from most people's perspectives.

 

The problem is that everyone is the same and that's boring for fight planning.

 

And yes we could increase training speed, sort standups and change ground skills programming if people want things changing. We can change and tweak anything in the game. The less time we spend debating stuff the quicker we can change stuff if we get some agreement. That's something that applies to all changes.

[PBR]

For me it comes down to, if it aint broke don't fix it, and I don't see anything wrong with fighters under a 90% skill cap.

 

well in your eyes its not broke but in many others eyes it is -- just like you think every fighter in ufc is elite or every player in nfl is elite

[Rambo]

well in your eyes its not broke but in many others eyes it is -- just like you think every fighter in ufc is elite or every player in nfl is elite

 

 

lol to think they're not, is disrespectful to the athlete.

 

 

There's hundreds of thousands of people trying to get to that level. To think the few hundred that are, aren't elite? C'mon. Common sense tells you they are.

[MMATycoon]

I completely disagree. Not even all boxers are elite boxers so it makes no sense to me to say all MMA fighters are elite in every aspect of MMA - that's fundamentally impossible. Anyway, it's pointless to argue about that point and it just wastes more time we could spend agreeing on a solution and getting it done.

 

Point is, no matter what you think of the real world and whether you think they are all elite or not, if we took that in a game context, having everyone as that high skilled makes the game stupid. SO, as a GAME, we need the variation to make gameplanning interesting.

[minark]

@minark, that's how I would see it, yes.

 

As for my personal choice of a second skill, I liked the idea of splitting subs into chokes and locks. I like the idea of transitions as a skill. At the moment there isn't really an offensive secondary skill for passing guard / sweeps etc. For countering and preventing it from happening there is defensive grappling, which is a very overpowered skill as is, because it is used for GNP defense, sub defense, transition defense, counters, preventing someone from getting up.

 

If we had a transitions skill that could be used more clearly as the offensive secondary. We could also use it for countering. That would leave defensive grappling mostly as a control skill for stopping GNP and sub defense and we could use it maybe 70:30 with transitions for preventing someone from advancing their position.

 

I like this idea. My opinion is to do this or drop everyone's skills down to 80%. The biggest problem is no matter what we do, everybody won't agree. We'll be lucky to have an idea that most people agree with. It's just the nature of everybody having their own opinion.

 

I do see Chris' point with escapes. If we add escapes we have to figure out referee stand ups because the strikers will just go useless in escapes, keep defensive grappling and get transitions for the 70:30 split and then wait for the referee stand up. So as Chris' has been saying with referee stand ups, I think if we can fix referee stand ups alongside adding these skills, I like the idea.

[Guest]

I like the idea of transitions as a skill. At the moment there isn't really an offensive secondary skill for passing guard / sweeps etc. For countering and preventing it from happening there is defensive grappling, which is a very overpowered skill as is, because it is used for GNP defense, sub defense, transition defense, counters, preventing someone from getting up.

 

If we had a transitions skill that could be used more clearly as the offensive secondary. We could also use it for countering. That would leave defensive grappling mostly as a control skill for stopping GNP and sub defense and we could use it maybe 70:30 with transitions for preventing someone from advancing their position.

 

Whoaaa, I really loved this idea! I always thought that we should have a skill focused on advance positions, like passing guard, sweeps and so on. Really, really loved the transition skill idea!

 

As for the idea of splitting subs into chokes and locks, please, don't do this, the transition skill is so much important and it will kind of fulfill a hole in the game, whilst there's no hole with the subs. When you train submissions in real life you learn lots of variotions, from an armbar you can go to a choke, from a choke you can go to armlock, you can fake one and use the other, so I really believe you should let subs the way they are today.

[Rambo]

I get what you're saying, but I think you along with the majority of the population that feel that way put too much emphasis on elite. Elite doesn't have to mean that you're the best puncher in the world. Sensational++ is a black belt in this game, and I'm not sure when you get your red belt but I think it's at the elite+ mark.

 

Think of how many IRL fighters have their black belt... Nick & Nate Diaz, Mir, Wanderlei, Anderson, Nogueiras, Jacare, GSP, Werdum, Kenny Florian, Maia, Leites, BJ Penn, Aoki, Gonzaga, Machida, Carlos Newten, Bas Rutten, Junior Dos Santos, Denis Kang, Palhares, Alan Belcher, Matt Serra, Forest Griffin, Rashad Evans, Thiago Silva, Travis Lutter, Joe Rogan... lol, the list goes on and on. If one or two of these are wrong, substitute it with a dozen others I missed.

 

 

GSP, Nick Diaz, BJ Penn, (plus KJ Noons & Arlovski) were described as the best boxers in MMA by Freddie Roach. That makes them elite level boxers (in mma). You can't deny that GSP is an elite level wrestler too. He's the definition of a triple Elite primary fighter, boxing/wrestling/BJJ. He thwarted off every submission attempt Condit threw at him, and Condit is a very skilled fighter when it comes to submissions. Anderson Silva is the definition of Elite Boxing/Muay Thai/BJJ.

 

This is where I struggle with your posts. I think (and I think most people think) that it's pretty rubbish having fighters that high, so it definitely needs something doing from most people's perspectives.

 

The problem is that everyone is the same and that's boring for fight planning.

 

And yes we could increase training speed, sort standups and change ground skills programming if people want things changing. We can change and tweak anything in the game. The less time we spend debating stuff the quicker we can change stuff if we get some agreement. That's something that applies to all changes.

 

Getting those stats didn't occur over night, and to get to those stats it requires a legit dedication to this game. People who half ass it don't get there. Essentially with a skill cap below 90%, training becomes absolutely useless a lot sooner than before, and increasing the training speed (something that needs to be done at the lower levels) makes it become even useless quicker. I can see how maybe a 21-23 year old fighter with those stats could be considered rubbish, but not somebody who's been training for 10+ years. I've always considered secondaries a technical level (or knowledge) of that skill, because they don't always perform like they're elite in it. I have fighters with elite striking defense and boxing getting punched by far inferior boxers. Hiddens and sliders impact the way your fighter performs. A fighter with elite TD's sometimes struggles to TD a much inferior wrestler.

 

Gameplanning at the highest levels against the top fighters is what I enjoy the most. I don't see how gameplanning is boring. Training stats is what's boring. It doesn't matter if they're all elite, sensational, exceptional... training is so slow it's boring, and pointless. Making a skill cap at 75-80% makes it become even more pointless, quicker.

 

 

 

anyway, do what you do man. Good luck.

 

 

Whoaaa, I really loved this idea! I always thought that we should have a skill focused on advance positions, like passing guard, sweeps and so on. Really, really loved the transition skill idea!

 

That's what I was getting at with offensive grappling as well.

[Guest]

That's what I was getting at with offensive grappling as well.

 

Yeah, for me it seems "offensive grappling" is a better name for this transition skill idea too, considering this new skill would be more focused on advance positions like in a offensive way of improve the position, right?

[MMATycoon]

CK, sorry but I can't keep reading these long posts over and over when you're basically saying the same thing every time. I asked in the last one that we stop talking about real life - we just fundamentally disagree and it really doesn't matter. In the game, if someone is 140/150 and someone is 145/150, that's a very, very small difference and basically means the fight is decided by hiddens; another issue that a lot of people have with the game.

 

To give it you in numbers,

 

145/150 is only 3.5% better than 140/150. The same 5 point difference lower down, e.g. 120/150 and 115/150 is a 4.3% difference. So the higher up you get, the less being any better means. Even with just one skill that's a problem but when fighters are at 90%, that's applied over ALL the skills and we're getting to the point were it's hiddens that dictate the fights.

 

We can kill that bird with this stone too. The lower the skills are comparatively, the more variation we can have. Whether you call that elite, supernatural, spideypower, it really doesn't matter... The point is, the lower the average fighter skill is, the more variation we have, the more specialists we can have and the better the fighting part of the game will be.

 

... and that's putting aside the fact that if all your fighters and all your opponents look the same you basically only need one set of tactics.

[Guest]

CK, sorry but I can't keep reading these long posts over and over when you're basically saying the same thing every time. I asked in the last one that we stop talking about real life - we just fundamentally disagree and it really doesn't matter. In the game, if someone is 140/150 and someone is 145/150, that's a very, very small difference and basically means the fight is decided by hiddens; another issue that a lot of people have with the game.

 

To give it you in numbers,

 

145/150 is only 3.5% better than 140/150. The same 5 point difference lower down, e.g. 120/150 and 115/150 is a 4.3% difference. So the higher up you get, the less being any better means. Even with just one skill that's a problem but when fighters are at 90%, that's applied over ALL the skills and we're getting to the point were it's hiddens that dictate the fights.

 

We can kill that bird with this stone too. The lower the skills are comparatively, the more variation we can have. Whether you call that elite, supernatural, spideypower, it really doesn't matter... The point is, the lower the average fighter skill is, the more variation we have, the more specialists we can have and the better the fighting part of the game will be.

 

... and that's putting aside the fact that if all your fighters and all your opponents look the same you basically only need one set of tactics.

 

If all you're going to do is keep coming in here with "facts and percentages" I'm really going to have to start thinking you're not taking this game seriously

[Warwynd]

As for my personal choice of a second skill, I liked the idea of splitting subs into chokes and locks. I like the idea of transitions as a skill. At the moment there isn't really an offensive secondary skill for passing guard / sweeps etc. For countering and preventing it from happening there is defensive grappling, which is a very overpowered skill as is, because it is used for GNP defense, sub defense, transition defense, counters, preventing someone from getting up.

 

If we had a transitions skill that could be used more clearly as the offensive secondary. We could also use it for countering. That would leave defensive grappling mostly as a control skill for stopping GNP and sub defense and we could use it maybe 70:30 with transitions for preventing someone from advancing their position.

 

Maybe I am missing something here, but if the bold part were to happen wouldn't that make things for the ground fighters much harder? With Escapes then the ground fighter wouldn't need it and the stand up fighters would, but with splitting sub, then ONLY the ground fighters would need it and that would make adding a skill that only the standup fighters would need pretty pointless.The offensive Grappling idea I lke but it might have a similar effect. I am OK with whatever you choose to go with. Especially since it doesn't hurt me that bad either way, but I just wanted to point that out.

 

I get what you're saying, but I think you along with the majority of the population that feel that way put too much emphasis on elite. Elite doesn't have to mean that you're the best puncher in the world. Sensational++ is a black belt in this game, and I'm not sure when you get your red belt but I think it's at the elite+ mark.

 

e·lite or é·lite (http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ibreve.gif-lhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/emacr.gifthttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gif, http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/amacr.gif-lhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/emacr.gifthttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gif)

n. pl. elite or e·lites

1.

a. A group or class of persons or a member of such a group or class, enjoying superior intellectual, social, or economic status: "In addition to notions of social equality there was much emphasis on the role of elites and of heroes within them" (Times Literary Supplement).

b. The best or most skilled members of a group: the football team's elite.

2. A size of type on a typewriter, equal to 12 characters per linear inch.

 

I think the bold part says it all. Yes even though an NFL player, even the ones we think are shitty, would be far better than the majority of the rest of the people in the world that play football at the grade school/high school/college level, they are still not considered elite. Only the best of the best are the elite. Not the best of the rest.

[Stu_Pidasol]

OK - was thinking it might be a good idea to now that we have had a bit more sorted out by Mike ios to take stock of where we are at...

 

Adding another skill in escapes - ref stand ups will need to be tweaked to make it a stat that is most definitely required by strikers to get off the ground rather than waiting for a ref stand up. Bridges the gap between strikers and grapplers brings the total skill points of fighters down slightly.

 

What are your thoughts on how fighters are going to be pushed into retirement? Is it going to be accumalation of injuries?? Makes teh never get injured hidden much more worthwhile picking?

[MMATycoon]

Yes an accumulation of injuries. It is already being logged and in place with the highest total injury days in the game being about 350 days I think.

 

As for splitting subs, I would prefer to do transitions than that anyway but if you did split subs then you could have a focussed sub specialist, e.g. Palhares style and you would need that offensive skill to defend against it. I think I would rather do that with Sunday workshops though and separate specialisms, like I've talked about previously with Judo / Karate.

[Rambo]

How long til these new changes take place?

[SteelPenn]

We do need Judo and Karate. Give us the option with the others but only allow us to use 4 of then so we get a big mix up in fighter creations. That would be freaking great Mike. Its getting a little old with creating the same old fighters and trying to get diff results from training them, have 6 primaries but only allowed to use 4 of them would really allow us to mix things up.

 

Judo would really be great as it would complement the ground game which is needed. Judo would let us use throws to get takedowns This would even the playing field a bit over the stand up friendly game we have now.

[minark]

We do need Judo and Karate. Give us the option with the others but only allow us to use 4 of then so we get a big mix up in fighter creations. That would be freaking great Mike. Its getting a little old with creating the same old fighters and trying to get diff results from training them, have 6 primaries but only allowed to use 4 of them would really allow us to mix things up.

 

Judo would really be great as it would complement the ground game which is needed. Judo would let us use throws to get takedowns This would even the playing field a bit over the stand up friendly game we have now.

 

I think when this was brought up before it was decided that this would be a huge change that in the long run would be counter productive due to being an entire game engine change. I think the reasoning was because right now it's basically all flavor text so a whole new system would need to be implemented.

 

I could be wrong and thinking of another idea. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong. Lol.

[MMATycoon]

How long til these new changes take place?

Completely depends how long it takes us to agree (or at least come to a conclusion) on something. I could start this week if we agreed a plan then it would take maybe 5 weeks to get most of it done.

 

As for Judo and Karate, I don't think we should have them as totally new primaries - I wanted to have separate specialities. So you can have a Judo speciality that helps with clinch takedowns for example.

[Warwynd]

Completely depends how long it takes us to agree (or at least come to a conclusion) on something. I could start this week if we agreed a plan then it would take maybe 5 weeks to get most of it done.

 

As for Judo and Karate, I don't think we should have them as totally new primaries - I wanted to have separate specialities. So you can have a Judo speciality that helps with clinch takedowns for example.

 

Oooo.... I like this!

[Guest]

Well, we can agree that we need to decrease the gap between strikers and grapplers. And we do agree that we need a new skill, in order to have more skils to distribute the points in all of them. Also, it seems everybody liked the transition skill you suggested and the majority who expressed themselves here doesn't like the idea of splitting submissions (please, don't do this!). So, I would say we have more then 80% of an agreement here!

 

As for Judo and Karate, how is gonna work then? I mean, if it's not primaires, it will be secondaries? New natural aptitudes? New Hiddens?

[ajperok]

We do need Judo and Karate. Give us the option with the others but only allow us to use 4 of then so we get a big mix up in fighter creations. That would be freaking great Mike. Its getting a little old with creating the same old fighters and trying to get diff results from training them, have 6 primaries but only allowed to use 4 of them would really allow us to mix things up.

 

Judo would really be great as it would complement the ground game which is needed. Judo would let us use throws to get takedowns This would even the playing field a bit over the stand up friendly game we have now.

 

Why are we jumping to this conversation again, when the original issue hasn't even been fixed? I'd really just like to see the focus on the tickers, the soft cap and aging get implemented. That is way overdue, and hurting playability. These other suggestions are just improvements that could be added any time.

 

 

For the record though-

You can't just say "add Judo and Karate" Where is the balance, the plusses and minuses? What are your differences?

 

Example:

Judo = advantage to takedowns in the Clinch, disadvantage to takedowns from standing

higher odds of a throw and landing in better postion

 

Aikido = advantage to counter and defensive standup, disadvantage in aggressive manuevers

 

Karate= advantage to standup attacks, disadvantage to Clinch attacks (compared to Muay Thai)

 

You could have an endless list of Primary choices, it wouldn't be that big of deal and probably pretty easy programming.

[soyster89]

The problem with soyster's solution is that it probably takes a real life 1-2 years to play out before everyone over 80% total skill retires. For that entire time you have people above the soft cap who cannot be reached. This is not an acceptable solution when we have equally logical and much fairer solutions on offer.

 

Mike, you've stated before that the difference from elite to sensational is pretty minimal - that we (the managers) put far too much into a skill level. If that's true, why the need for an immediate reduction if over 80% in total skill? My whole point in my "quick fix" was to impliment the behind the scenes cap (which I understand you're doing), and then allow those fighters to be phased out via the addition of the injury thing. If the 80% is of such great and immediate importance, just push all of the fighters down to that level. Doesn't that also "fix" the ground game by reducing skills and allowing for more varied fighters?

 

 

We have several things that people complain about and want fixed. Some of you seem intent on fighting against killing two birds with one stone. We have a simple solution proposed where we add skills that will help even up the ground game AND decrease total skill points, in turn increasing variation between fighters. If you fight against that change here, there will just have to be a different change elsewhere to deal with the other issue... Proposing a simpler solution that doesn't deal with the other problems isn't overall any more simple - it just delays a different improvement (evening up the ground game) and probably makes that other improvement more complicated and harder to do.

 

No one is against killing two birds with one stone, Mike. I just fail to see how adding two skills does anything to help the ground game. Your earlier point was that fighters at 90% skill level are too good in everything, so that has essentially killed the ground game. Well, doesn't an overall skill reduction from 90% to 80% do the same thing? I thought adding two new skills was just a way of getting fighters to that 80% level? If that's the case, you're throwing two stones and hitting the same (already dead) bird.

 

One other thing - if we want fighters over 80% to decline, can't we have ultra-accelerated tickers for those fighters that bring them down?

Edited November 21, 2012 by soyster89