Hindenpeter Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 So... uhhhmmm... OK... so far i get it... but... it feels weird somehow... if I spar BJJ/WR/MT/BO about the same and i train the rest general CT, and I have reached my limit... what the hell is happening then?... does my primary sparring and CT then start to take my secondaries (which should still be affected by the sparring - so it feels not right to drop in "punches" because i only trained "boxing" half a week ago)... or will i then just stall till my potential drops with age? ... and why won't there be like a slidery thing in which we can allocate our potential ourselves... with like a green thing for current value and slider where you can say where to train to the max (of course if they don't train skill still drops...).. but if you set one really high the other sliders drop etc.... then people had more control of over where they loose skills or what kind of fighter they wanna end up with... just a humble idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadlyDirk Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 No. No. That is up for discussion. I made it look at def grappling, bjj and wrestling, as well as the physicals. I think I agree with this, if 'grapplers' needed high escapes as well to stop people escaping then grapplers will need all of the new ground secondaries which would kind of defeat the object of it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eveas Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 I'd assume grapplers will also need transitions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
762x39 Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 I realy think the coming changes will be good for the game, plus hopefully it will renew some peoples intrest. I wont lie I was starting to get a little bored, but now I am looking forward to learning it again. One thing about when we change our skills around, you guys can laugh if you want, but I know nothing about computers, how do you see the points your fighters have? Is it 2.5 points for every + on your skill? Like useless ++ would be 7.5 points or elite-- would be 140? I know I been playing a long time, but I have always just looked and the skill level and the + and - signs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Please raise the gym cap, right now its perfect because there is 12 coaches and 11 skills + CT... So you have 1 coach to teach everything. Really Hope we can have the cap value raised so i can have 14 coaches I would also like to see the gyms specialise a bit just like the fighters will have to. Right now, all gyms are more or less similar super gyms that regulate attendance to provide quality. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 I'd assume grapplers will also need transitions. Yes, but escapes not so much if at all. Ofcourse one have to think that when facing even better fround guy those escpes could come in handy. =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 For Mike If I take 100 points from knees and put into transitions will my muay thai primary go down as an example? If I this stays the same I than train knees up again to remarkable will my muay thai raise the same as it does now. ??? Same for all otherr P and S? Yep. I'd assume grapplers will also need transitions. Yes they will need transitions. So... uhhhmmm... OK... so far i get it... but... it feels weird somehow... if I spar BJJ/WR/MT/BO about the same and i train the rest general CT, and I have reached my limit... what the hell is happening then?... does my primary sparring and CT then start to take my secondaries (which should still be affected by the sparring - so it feels not right to drop in "punches" because i only trained "boxing" half a week ago)... or will i then just stall till my potential drops with age? ... and why won't there be like a slidery thing in which we can allocate our potential ourselves... with like a green thing for current value and slider where you can say where to train to the max (of course if they don't train skill still drops...).. but if you set one really high the other sliders drop etc.... then people had more control of over where they loose skills or what kind of fighter they wanna end up with... just a humble idea The points being taken off are more spread out than under the old tickers system. So if you train boxing and gain say 0.5 points, that 0.5 will be taken from a spread of most of the other skills, in varying amounts. This way it's much less dramatic. 0.5 / 22 (the number of other skills), is only 0.022 points per skill on average, which you're not even going to notice. It doesn't spread it evenly but you get the concept. If you train boxing, you're still going to end up net-gaining skills in punches because you'll gain more than you'll lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 I realy think the coming changes will be good for the game, plus hopefully it will renew some peoples intrest. I wont lie I was starting to get a little bored, but now I am looking forward to learning it again. One thing about when we change our skills around, you guys can laugh if you want, but I know nothing about computers, how do you see the points your fighters have? Is it 2.5 points for every + on your skill? Like useless ++ would be 7.5 points or elite-- would be 140? I know I been playing a long time, but I have always just looked and the skill level and the + and - signs. You'll see all that on the page where you reallocate points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
762x39 Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 You'll see all that on the page where you reallocate points. Cool thanks, that is what I was hoping for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortfuse122829 Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Mike I sent you a PM in the forums Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
762x39 Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Please raise the gym cap, right now its perfect because there is 12 coaches and 11 skills + CT... So you have 1 coach to teach everything. Really Hope we can have the cap value raised so i can have 14 coaches I agree it would be nice to have more skill points to hire more coaches, what I did when the last change was made was rehire almost all my coaches and skim a few points off to make them 140 or 145 elite, kept a couple 150. That way I was able to hire 14 coaches all eilte. With them learning also, now almost all are 150 or close to it. But I have had to raise their pay a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 what will be the point where the injuries will got bad for fighter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EzekelRAGE Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Mike - About the hidden ticker thing (40 sessions not training) and when a fighter reaches his potential cap (when training one thing takes away from another). An all useless coach would be a good option then wouldnt it? If I have a specialized guy who I dont want to gain anymore skills but dont want them to drop either, think I remember doing this like 8 months ago when I had more skilled guys for tickers. About gyms, overall I think Mattyblaze/backelie/alec said it right a few years ago. Although this is old, it still touches on the cap issues (which is what ppl are goin on about now). Why is it hard to make a profit with a $600 elite gym? Because if your cap is too high people will go elsewhere. If fees go up to $700 then caps will drop at every existing elite gym (since that will make the gyms better) and if you have a higher cap than that new low cap people will go elsewhere. The main reason it's hard to make money with a gym is because of the competition. Regarding the 13-14 coaches suggestion I'm surprised there aren't more elite gyms with 4-8 coaches instead of 10-12 since smaller gym (less coaches = less members needed to pay) means easier to get private sparring times. I agree with backelie here - raising cap or adding coaches will do nothing to improve the game, IMO. These were the same subjects brought up when fees were raised from $500-$600 - eventually, people were gonna ask for a raise again. I think gym owners need to become a little smarter - I don't think an "all-around" gym is the right way to go, maybe you need to focus on more specialized gyms. I actually envision lots of small niche gyms - a stand-up gym, a BJJ gym, a sparring gym, maybe just a wrestling gym or a defense gym, and fighters hopping from gym-to-gym in preparation for a fight just like real life. Gyms with fewer coaches and low caps can not only provided the focused training people should be looking for at the same or better price than the 12 coach all around gyms, but they would also create more demand for additional gyms. Right now, the goal seems to simply be to find a $600 12 coach gym and stick with it forever. That would seem rather boring to me, both as a manager with my fighters, but especially as a gym owner of such a gym. One of the aspects of running DCC that I enjoy is the need to go out and find new fighters all the time. Of course, I also don't feel that any of the companies should be massive profit generators, so I'm probably in the minority with most of my views on how companies should work in the game. style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif ================================================================================================================= I beg to differ. I hate the idea of there not being an available training slot open for Escapes in the evening or what have you. Splitting the existing coaches into coaches for these new skills will mean that the class sizes will be HUGE. And therefore useless. Everyone will be trying to get into these classes and that means that without having the ability to keep class sizes down by offering the maximum amount of classes for these new skills that they will be overcrowded as Hell. It might cushion the blow somewhat if Defensive Grappling training also affected Escapes, and/or Transitions. Or maybe have Submissions training affect Transitions, and Def Grap affect Escapes... or Hell even hae both Submissions and Defensive Grappling affect both of the new skills somewhat? On not wanting to split training, maybe compromises have to be made . I can see defensive grappling affecting escapes/trans a little, but not subs. Probably to the same extent clinchwork affects elbows/knees or slightly less. As a private gym owner I know I cant feel the "struggles" of a legit gym, but a public gym trying to keep low class sizes, catering to all skills for every session, seems like a tall order. Maybe a gym network needs to be formed. Where 3 or so gyms get together, one goin standup, another going ground and another goin cts or something. Could keep classes low or w/e. White Gorilla/Blitz Gyms used a system like this years ago. Think it was mostly successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Just a quick heads up on training and secondary benefits. Initially I'm making it so that BJJ / Wrestling etc won't give any boost to Transitions and Escapes. This is only until everyone reallocates their skills - after that we'll add in the secondary training benefits as with all the other skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acoustic Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Instead of making a new thread I'll just ask here, when are we gonna see the submission grappling tournaments? I got a couple of "Catch Wrestlers" that would love to participate. Also, since we would end up with 3 different types of contests (MMA,KT,Grappling) could we possibly get those records separated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warwynd Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Mike - About the hidden ticker thing (40 sessions not training) and when a fighter reaches his potential cap (when training one thing takes away from another). An all useless coach would be a good option then wouldnt it? If I have a specialized guy who I dont want to gain anymore skills but dont want them to drop either, think I remember doing this like 8 months ago when I had more skilled guys for tickers. About gyms, overall I think Mattyblaze/backelie/alec said it right a few years ago. Although this is old, it still touches on the cap issues (which is what ppl are goin on about now). ================================================================================================================= On not wanting to split training, maybe compromises have to be made . I can see defensive grappling affecting escapes/trans a little, but not subs. Probably to the same extent clinchwork affects elbows/knees or slightly less. As a private gym owner I know I cant feel the "struggles" of a legit gym, but a public gym trying to keep low class sizes, catering to all skills for every session, seems like a tall order. Maybe a gym network needs to be formed. Where 3 or so gyms get together, one goin standup, another going ground and another goin cts or something. Could keep classes low or w/e. White Gorilla/Blitz Gyms used a system like this years ago. Think it was mostly successful. This is a possible alternative I suppose, but with people crying about how much of a pain training is now, can you imagine their bitching if they now have to bounce around from gym to gym? Even I would be aggravated with having to constantly be hoping from one gym to the other all the time . To say nothing of the issue of when you find a really good gym that you like and thne leave for a week ot two to train some other skill and then want go back the the first gym only to find that all the slots are gone now... you cannot get back there and are left scrambling trying to figure out how you will get the training you need/want... It would be a cluster fuck. Perhaps if a system could be set up in the game that allows for you to be signed on to multiple gyms. For instance (and this is straight off the top of my head and not full thought out yet): I sign my fighter to gym A which does Standup skills I also sign him up to gym B which does Grappling skills I sign with a third gym, gym C which focuses on fitness only. CT and non-coached sessions like Cardio, Weights and Yoga. and a fourth gym, gym D which does sparring only We'll not worry on fees at the moment, but suffice to say that I feel one of two systems should be implemented here: Pay the full fee for each gym every week. Easy and workable. pay a per session rate to each gym based on the weekly rate and broken down evenly between all sessions. So at $600 per week that comes to $50 per session. at $1000 per week it breaks down to a messier $83.33 repeating. I think we could round that to $83.34 to keep it simple. Setting up training could be a giant pain in the ass so I suggest that with these "gym networks" in place that when doing your training schedule that all the sessions from all the gyms you are registered with show up in the drop down menus when setting your schedule. This would involve a bit of work and revamping to implement no doubt but I think it is doable. This would also require and new link/page called "Training Schedules", or something along those lines, to set all these things up in. I suppose if you are still in only one gym then you could still set your training by going to that page as normal, but for the networks you could have the new page/link. I would further make it so that all the gyms would have to be in the same city and further I think capping it so that you could only be in say 4 or 5 gyms at once. Something like that. Gym fee caps could remain in place and as other posters have mentioned you could then be able to worry less about paying for the damn thing since the cost for each gym to run would be able to be lowered due to the fewer coaches in them. It is a novel way to look at fixing the problem. It might also cause people to actually think about running gyms again. Maybe not for profit so much but definitely for helping out with Alliances and so on... It is in their own best interest. I think that this would also be a big help in leveling the field some as it would allow more people to have access to the best training without having to be a millionaire or kissing someone's ass to get access to their private gym. I happen to know plenty of the top managers and so on so I could theoretically get that access, but the vast majority of the people playing don't know these guys and would not be able to secure an invite to a private gym. And since they train in public gyms they also aren't making any money so they cannot afford to start their own private gyms etc... I could flesh this idea out more if people like it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Is training speeding up any? I seem to remember Mike saying added these new things traing might speed up. Is that happening? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EzekelRAGE Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 This is a possible alternative I suppose, but with people crying about how much of a pain training is now, can you imagine their bitching if they now have to bounce around from gym to gym? I think for the most part fighters who think like that are on the higher end of the payscale(guessing, idk), if so, meh. Pay for good training Gym Networks Yep, this is a good idea. It was also mentioned in that thread as well. I think they should pay full price for each gym. A pay per session thing is bad imo for the gym owner. They dont have any guaranteed revenue even though they may have a high number of members. I also agree another page for setting training with all gyms would help/be needed as well. **Here's my bright idea for this problem** I think that multiple active gym memberships/slots would be a great thing to have coded into the game. You can be a member of 2 or 3 gyms at a time, pay for all 3 (this would be a good money sink for rich fighters), and keep your slots reserved at each one. That would allow the setup you mentioned, of training striking Mon/Tues at Punchbox, wrestling Wed/Thur at Kimboplex Academy, then subs on Fri/Sat at The Bad Touch. Since the gym owners would get paid by all members, the effective class size would drop down a bit, and fighters with more spare cash would have access to better training and smaller classes. Up and coming guys could still hit up a regular $600 all-around gym to get good training, and sign up to additional gyms as they progress. This would require a substantial programming effort, since you would be choosing between 3 gyms for each training session, but with the addition of reserved gym slots you wouldn't ever lose your spot by training somewhere else for a few days. ps dedicated gyms are the future. I can't wait until I can have my project guys join a wrestling only/bjj only gym, it would be a great complement to the striking setup I have right now with Beatdown Palace. Is training speeding up any? I seem to remember Mike saying added these new things traing might speed up. Is that happening? i think mike said he wants to see how everything goes with this at first. Either way no not speeding it up atm. Nevermind got this jumbled with something else he posted Evening all (if 2.11am is evening)... Glad you're all sounding positive about it. I'm sure that'll change when you lose Anyway, to run through a few things. - No plans to change speed of training. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Instead of making a new thread I'll just ask here, when are we gonna see the submission grappling tournaments? I got a couple of "Catch Wrestlers" that would love to participate. Also, since we would end up with 3 different types of contests (MMA,KT,Grappling) could we possibly get those records separated? Grappling tournament won't be part of the main records. Not sure when it will get done. Will have a list of stuff to prioritise when we're done with this update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynch96 Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 I think that the changes that ultimately over-emphasize age will encourage more ID hiding. ID Hiding: Only fighting in ID restricted Orgs, despite having the appropriate skills to fight any and all challengers. Does this game really need more roadblocks to top fighters fighting each other? It is already one step away from professional boxing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronix Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 No. No. That is up for discussion. I made it look at def grappling, bjj and wrestling, as well as the physicals. That page needs a rework - I'll get that done later today. Regarding injuries affecting potential, the further below your age-drop-off you are, the less effect that has. It gradually becomes more important as you reach that age. We're only talking a couple of percent here in terms of potential, if you have significant injuries. Some of the fighters in the top 10p4p only have about 72% skills, so a couple of percent isn't going to make or break anyone. Gyms: again, we'll see. I'm not going to add anything else to worry about in the initial launch. Edit: a quick note on injuries - I would bet the most frequent injury in the whole of MMA is a broken hand from punching someone. We had at least one at the last UFC. (Hendricks). Yes they are very frequent but if that is the case imo it should be stated that the fighter really did brake his hand durring that fight. Imo it's not realistic if he brakes his hand every fight. Soar hands and some bruces sure. But if he goes out for a long period due to broken hand, again I think that should be put into words as a fact after the fight rather than guessing. But then again the feeling I'm getting from readin the other posts is that injurys will not be that bad so it might never become an issue. Hands do get injured a lot but they don't brake every fight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topologies Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Wait, I thought DGrap was getting scrapped and replaced by escapes and Transitions?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EzekelRAGE Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Wait, I thought DGrap was getting scrapped and replaced by escapes and Transitions?? No, dgrap is staying, escapes and trans being added along with it. Dgrap was too powerful and covered too much groundwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topologies Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Does this mean dgrap=submission defense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kole Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Does this mean dgrap=submission defense? sub&gnp defense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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