UniConor Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 So.... yes to reducing referee standups next week? Yes! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 I find it hard to believe that every one of my fighters over 30 has got a great random roll for degradation and all of yours have got shit rolls. Yeah sure some have got better rolls than others but the difference is minimal. Don't get me wrong I get depops, but nothing that is making me want stay my fighters are good for the scrap heap i take that to mean that your training looks a lot like mine. I havent had all bad degrade rolls. Esposito didnt start depopping until he was 36, which is weird because his injury history wasnt great and he got knocked out a lot. Dennis Wise stayed pretty strong until 34. For the most part, the guys I keep through their prime all get nailed around 29. McDermot was rapidly declining by 30, so was Scotty Bennet. Now I have Socha falling apart at that age. I think more fighters should start degrading between 32-35 and less guys pre 32 and post 35. Seems totally unrealistic to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu_Pidasol Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 On my older guys (over 30) my training looks nothing like yours.. 1 CT a week and 6 sparring sessions With a very occasional secondary training if something has depopped.. Â My sparbots who aren't fighting don't even lose much.. Â Granted my fighters aren't trained to within an inch of there lives.. But we I am talking about fighters with over 2650 points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 On my older guys (over 30) my training looks nothing like yours.. 1 CT a week and 6 sparring sessions With a very occasional secondary training if something has depopped.. Â My sparbots who aren't fighting don't even lose much.. Â Granted my fighters aren't trained to within an inch of there lives.. But we I am talking about fighters with over 2650 points It has to be all hiddens then. If Socha doesnt do 3-4 CTs a week he'll start losing points in physicals. I'm also not talking about depops at all. It is total point value. Depops are usually points moving around from skill to skill. The problem is point loss, which a 30 year old losing 6-8 a week on average. Here is a typical week for one of my vets. I change the skill training on a weekly basis to cover all the skills important to whatever their build needs. Monday AM Striking Defense (Coach : Dwain Melendez) (1) Monday PM Muay Thai Sparring (6) Tuesday AM Circuit Training (General) (Coach : Bryan Keith) (1) Tuesday PM BJJ Sparring (5) Weds AM Circuit Training (General) (Coach : Winfred Bauer) (1) Weds PM Wrestling Sparring (7) Thursday AM Circuit Training (General) (Coach : Norris Robertson) (1) Thursday PM Ground and Pound (Coach : Boyd Reyes) (1) Friday AM Muay Thai Sparring (8) Friday PM Kicks (Coach : Wilford Ware) (2) Saturday AM Transitions (Coach : Boyd Reyes) (1) Saturday PM Boxing Sparring (9) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 Â So for example my guy Badoyan shows Wk 4: 2738 Wk 5: 2742 Wk 6: 2741 Wk 7: 2733 Wk 8: 2727 Wk 9: 2720 Wk 10: 2715 Â From his last birthday (30) Socha went like this: 2718 2710 2704 2696 2690 2684 2679 Â 39 points in 6 weeks. I always thought that with his low injury rate that he could still be a decent fighter by having a long career despite his low cap. He'll be garbage by the time EPL is over though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortfuse122829 Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 Well I can see 1 problem with it JLP is CT general does not depop the ticker. Now I'm not sure how that factors into the overall skills dropping but if I depop in flexibility , a CT general will re pop you back to the previous skill level.....but your flexibility is still a declining skill. BC u need to train yoga to reset the ticker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortfuse122829 Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 So my training usually looks like:  Wk 1:  mon am : yoga mon pm: box spar  tue am: d grapple: tue pm: MT spar  wed am: ct speed wed pm: wrestle spar  thurs am: kicks thurs pm: BJJ spar  fri am: ct agility fri pm: TD's  sat am: cardio sat pm: transitions  then in Wk 2 I swap to new physicals, punches becomes strike def, kicks becomes clinch, TD's becomes GNP/TDD & so on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortfuse122829 Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 I asked Mike if u had to do CT's that way in PM & am almost certain he said yes but maybe he can weigh in  & LOL @ scooby, is anything ever done that fast??? Maybe in a few weeks if you're lucky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 So my training usually looks like:  Wk 1:  mon am : yoga mon pm: box spar  tue am: d grapple: tue pm: MT spar  wed am: ct speed wed pm: wrestle spar  thurs am: kicks thurs pm: BJJ spar  fri am: ct agility fri pm: TD's  sat am: cardio sat pm: transitions  then in Wk 2 I swap to new physicals, punches becomes strike def, kicks becomes clinch, TD's becomes GNP/TDD & so on... I'll give it a try, it's a lot of extra work playing with the CT sessions for something that shouldnt be happening as drastically as it is anyway. All indications still seem to point to the degrade hidden playing an overwhelming role. Stu is doing one ct a week and not having much problems with his good degrade roll fighters.  I think the degrade hidden should be changed so there are very few outliers. Make 75-80% of all fighters began their decline in the the 31-33 age and have it be a much lower rate until they get to 34-35. I also think the idea that skills below 90 are barely hit at all doesnt make much sense. Skills i've never trained have lost less than a point in the 10 weeks i can see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu_Pidasol Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 10 week losses  Lester (39) 2625 - 2612 Oath (34) 2684 - 2675, sparbot Bunting (32) 2657 - 2646 Bubby (32) 2695 - 2645, sparbot Loompa (31) 2724 - 2719 Abbott (31) 2667 - 2666 Radev (30) 2748 - 2737, sparbot Binse (30) 2710 - 2710 Sis (26) 2693 - 2689 Belfort (26) 2694 - 2690, sparbot Bishop (26) 2672 - 2669  As I said any of the guys over 30 do 1 CT, 6 sparring sessions and an occasional secondary (lucky to be weekly if something depops) the sparbots only do 1 CT plus 6 sparring sessions.  The only one to cop any significant decrease is Bubby.. 1 in 8 over 30.. Maybe I've been lucky maybe not..  I'm not sure but wasn't there something in the degradation where higher skilled guys were going to be hit harder than lower skilled guys to level things out a bit (this includes, injury days and times knocked out too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortfuse122829 Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 yeah i know Jbomb said he was doing CT general & not often with Spliffs & not declining much either so who knows. I just set shit based off a ? asked via PM so I been rolling with that awhile. I also CT so much bc I was too spread out & didn't get as high as I should've so guys like Njewel have 2 or 3 physicals that depop to exc ++ & then I go like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 i take that to mean that your training looks a lot like mine. I havent had all bad degrade rolls. Esposito didnt start depopping until he was 36, which is weird because his injury history wasnt great and he got knocked out a lot. Dennis Wise stayed pretty strong until 34. For the most part, the guys I keep through their prime all get nailed around 29. McDermot was rapidly declining by 30, so was Scotty Bennet. Now I have Socha falling apart at that age. I think more fighters should start degrading between 32-35 and less guys pre 32 and post 35. Seems totally unrealistic to me. Â If your fighter's professional career starts at 16 or 18, it's very realistic to decline by 30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potter09 Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 I'm. Soo confused Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FallenFlyer Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Â If your fighter's professional career starts at 16 or 18, it's very realistic to decline by 30. Â Surely it is more common for fighters who reach the top level at a young age to go through a decline in their late 20s and then have a resurgence in their early 30s? Off the top of my head this is true for Belfort, Mir, Rua, Lawler and the older Diaz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 So when are we actually gonna have a final decision on each of the discussed engine changes? I think those who want to get their opinion across have done so by now. Will there be a mass mail sent round with all the plans for changes and when they will kick in? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted April 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I like to give myself a bit of thinking time before going ahead with any changes. I will post here and send out mass mails when I've decided on the changes. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skap Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I know most dont like the prediction sliders but I use them from time to time and dont see a reason to get ride of them to be honest. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I like to give myself a bit of thinking time before going ahead with any changes. I will post here and send out mass mails when I've decided on the changes. Â We have had such a wide range of conversations here. The thread is about Fight engine and the last few pages have been about fighter skill declines... Â Can we vote on lowering standups first??? Lol 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeaston Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I know most dont like the prediction sliders but I use them from time to time and dont see a reason to get ride of them to be honest. I think they killed the ground game. If I am facing a ground fighter, I know automatically that I can set those sliders to a high amount of take downs and because I game planned for it, I won't get taken down as much (at least that's how I understand it). That is not realistic either. In real life if a fighter is a better wrestler than you, no matter how much you game plan for takedown defense, 9-10 times your most likely getting taken down. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poraan Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Ground engine sucks... Lets boost grapplers, when those are already better than strikers.. Â http://i3.aijaa.com/b/00637/13807830.jpg?16c96313c52beb3608200fdc1c715205fa52f8c87ce57c2a2e2e875015e345637ae8e71bf30103ff15c625469d63f53a There is my "grappler".. How he can be bad, if he has same striking secondaries as striker?? And hes only 2,6k total skills. Â I understand that ground engine sucks,but if we do these grappler boosts we need to give something to strikers too.. Â Make escapes a lot more useful and escaping from top position should be easy even without escapes.. That would also allow "grapplers" to leave ground if they dont want to spent whole fight in ground.. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortfuse122829 Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I think everybody needs to relax a little, there hasn't been any new input added to a good way to fix stand-ups in days and badgering the shit out of Mike because you want immediate gratification isn't going to get things done any faster. You're just making yourself look like petulant children 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potter09 Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Same old story sean. Half wants 1 thing the other half wants something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortfuse122829 Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Well I was under the impression that Mike already made up his mind he's doing SOMETHING to ref stand-ups & escapes, he was just looking for input on what the best option was to fix them. Most ppl who had an opinion have already given it but this thread was only even started 8 days ago. When has anything ever moved that quickly? Mike usually takes the time to go back through and read all the suggestions on how to improve stuff and then tries to find a solution. And honestly so far the best idea on escapes came from him anyway. So I just don't understand everyone pressing him to make a final decision or put things to a vote. I think it's already been decided he's making a change, it's just a matter of figuring out how drastic or what calculations need done to do it. Â Obviously there are always going to be people who don't want changes at all but I think they're fighting a losing battle so they'd probably be better off making suggestions on a solution they could live with rather than resisting the changes altogether. Maybe I am misreading the situation but it sure seems to me like he's already made up his mind he's going to make a change 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I think everybody needs to relax a little, there hasn't been any new input added to a good way to fix stand-ups in days and badgering the shit out of Mike because you want immediate gratification isn't going to get things done any faster. You're just making yourself look like petulant children I was just asking a question I wouldn't even care that much if the changes didn't happen. I'm starting to get pretty good at last. I just didn't think there was a whole lot to say about each change anymore. And I was curious how we would all find out, so majority of managers weren't in the dark about it. Didn't mean to 'badger the shit out of mike'. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortfuse122829 Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I was just asking a question I wouldn't even care that much if the changes didn't happen. I'm starting to get pretty good at last. I just didn't think there was a whole lot to say about each change anymore. And I was curious how we would all find out, so majority of managers weren't in the dark about it. Didn't mean to 'badger the shit out of mike'. Â He almost always sends out a mass mail when he makes changes to the engine & always puts it on the spoiler page http://www.mmatycoon.com/spoilerpage.php he even made a section just for the discussion thread but even if he doesn't do that, they are always under the recent changes section of that page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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