Erik Posted January 29, 2017 Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 For me it's between the Billy Goat or the Mountain Goat are my top 2 goats. Hard to choose between them Fainting Goat is best goat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortfuse122829 Posted January 29, 2017 Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 I eat Otso for breakfast. Though whipping him for 4.5 rounds & getting stopped with 5 sec left in the tie breaker still pisses me off. Bunn & Power were both scrubs too so he's DQ'd. (Bunn beat Donny Donowitz too btw) & really CGrace with Martel? I beat him w/ like 10 different fighters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortfuse122829 Posted January 29, 2017 Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 Damn Bunn beat Rafa Silva too what an over-achiever he was lol. Honestly though that was all fight engine, I was probably the 1st mgr to click on sliders w/ the counter TD implementation. Once everyone else caught up to me their weak ass hiddens got exposed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 29, 2017 Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 I eat Otso for breakfast. Though whipping him for 4.5 rounds & getting stopped with 5 sec left in the tie breaker still pisses me off. Bunn & Power were both scrubs too so he's DQ'd. (Bunn beat Donny Donowitz too btw) & really CGrace with Martel? I beat him w/ like 10 different fighters You were using a glitch in the engine. I know it, you know it, everyone knows it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannetosen Posted January 29, 2017 Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 It shocking to hear so many names that I have never seen ( read) fights from. Really interesting to see these veterans talk about times long before I even joined. From the shorter time that I was around, the most elite fighters were in my opinion Donny, Ricky Rocker, Stormcrow, Spider,.... How do these compare to the old-time greats? I don't know. bubba killsinwater would fuck their corpses. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Regarding the amount of fights, in my view the lower you go in weight classes the more fights you need to win to get even close to #1 P4P. 205ers generate more KO's and hype to share among themselves than 155. In general lower weight fighters have to fight more lesser hyped guys but that doesn't make those guys crappy fighters, the competition is always there. Tonal could also easily access more hype fights just by visiting HW. Nowadays that kind of thing would be frowned on because a 217lbs guy (who never gets KO'd) could be seen having a speed advantage over a 270lbs guy and arguments about fairness could rise. I do not see moving up to HW from LHW as being a large disadvantage because that's badass! If you move up a WC and do not get koed by a bigger dude, you are a badass! I don't care what people say about speed advantage bullshit because heavier fighters have more power and should be able to ko more easily while lighter is faster and can probably land more strikes. There is an advantage and disadvantage to everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwad12345 Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 I do not see moving up to HW from LHW as being a large disadvantage because that's badass! If you move up a WC and do not get koed by a bigger dude, you are a badass! I don't care what people say about speed advantage bullshit because heavier fighters have more power and should be able to ko more easily while lighter is faster and can probably land more strikes. There is an advantage and disadvantage to everything. So youre saying because it would be impressive in real life it is impressive in this game? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjornmma1 Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 So youre saying because it would be impressive in real life it is impressive in this game? No, he is saying that it is impressive because it is a risk and it also means you have more top fighters you are facing when fighting in two divisions. The speed advantage might be there, but you are then also facing guys who have a power advantage over you. Fighting up or down a weight class always means you have a certain advantage, but also just as big of a disadvantage to deal with. You need to adapt more to the situation and anticipate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwad12345 Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 No, he is saying that it is impressive because it is a risk and it also means you have more top fighters you are facing when fighting in two divisions. I'm still looking for where he said that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Marky is offering his opinion saying Tonal could access more hype by being a LHW taking on HW fighters, but he says in his opinion, that nowadays a LHW fighting at HW is frowned upon because of the perceived speed advantage. Lefty is offering his opinion that, though he does not disagree with the present day existence of the view of many that a LHW is fighting with a speed advantage at HW, and therefore it does not happen as often as in Tonals era, Leftys opinion is that a LHW fighting at HW, in his opinion I add again, is a badass move (one to be respected) as his opinion is that the heavier fighters power advantage negates the lighter fighters speed advantage. Marky does not indicate whether he agrees with the perceived speed advantage, he only seems to infer that the Tycoon majority perceive there to be one, and therefore such a move from LHW to HW is frowned upon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortfuse122829 Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 I've always contested the whole speed thing playing that big of a factor. I dunno that I would totally dismiss the theory entirely because there is some influence from what I can tell. I've always believed that it was more so that the lighter guys just recover their energy at a more rapid rate then big men do (part of that belief is how quickly big guys gas and used to never recover from it and you rarely see the same thing happen at lower weights). Therefore if you have more energy throughout the fight it 'appears' like your fighter is always getting off first which can look like a speed advantage. But at the same time, I've never had an issue fighting guys lower in weight than me. Do I make sure that I consider the energy/speed factor into my sliders when fighting someone lighter in weight?? Sure I do. But Danny and Bunn both moved from 135-155 and beat elite fighters across the board in all weight classes so it's not something that can't be overcome IMO and therefore has always been a cop out for a loss. And if that is a factor being looked at, I'm pretty sure that Otso fought a fair amount of guys above him in weight as well (though I haven't looked in depth). I remember at one point though McRiot, ChuckW and Mega considered him the true 155 and 170lbs champion in Empire, IMMA and NFC because pretty sure he had beaten all the champions in both weight classes in those 3 orgs (again didn't do my research) but I just kinda remember that being discussed in chat at one point during that time before Danny ended his streak. But w/ that being said I also think it's more easily exploited at the higher weights Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortfuse122829 Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 You were using a glitch in the engine. I know it, you know it, everyone knows it. Haha yeah that's it. Or I've just forgotten more about sliders and the fight engine then you ever knew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentor Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 The thing is, which fighter in Tycoon history other than Tonal fought at his weight and had big success against top level HW fighters? Nobody pop's to mind other than him. I am not even certain that i remember small sized HW fighters (i mean 225 or 230lbs for example) having huge success at HW either, so if it is a huge advantage to be smaller, then why dont we get more small sized HW fighters? The answer is simple, speed is an advantage mostly for grappling, at HW they do not plan to grapple because they plan to KO your fighter, so the fact that Tonal still had the chin and power to finish some of the greatest (if not the greatest) HW fighters is a huge accomplishment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortfuse122829 Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 The thing is, which fighter in Tycoon history other than Tonal fought at his weight and had big success against top level HW fighters? Nobody pop's to mind other than him. I am not even certain that i remember small sized HW fighters (i mean 225 or 230lbs for example) having huge success at HW either, so if it is a huge advantage to be smaller, then why dont we get more small sized HW fighters? The answer is simple, speed is an advantage mostly for grappling, at HW they do not plan to grapple because they plan to KO your fighter, so the fact that Tonal still had the chin and power to finish some of the greatest (if not the greatest) HW fighters is a huge accomplishment. You did used to see lighter-sized HW's a lot though Mentor. I mean I don't think you see many under-weight HW's because most orgs have rules nowadays stopping that kind of thing because so many managers whine about guys being under-weight so it's just easier to not allow it. In fact someone made a thread at one point about how Syn had lots of guys under-weight in different weight classes because I'm kinda dismissive of the whole concept and didn't really pay that close of attention to it, due to viewing it as a cop out/excuse from certain people when they lose. There was a time though when most of the top HW's in the game were like 240-250lbs max. You almost never saw the top HW's cutting weight. I know there was a time when people suspected you got a energy hit for having to cut the maximum amount of weight so then guys started to avoid cutting weight entirely. I dunno if this still applies though because I know Mike has tried to make changes to help w/ body gassing and I'm really kinda operating on auto-pilot so I can't really nitpick atm w/ people over this engine. I'm not really paying that close attention You still see a fair amount of guys not cutting any weight if you look around hard enough though. Bardanos Rutherford Beast (he's actually under-weight surprised there hasn't been a cry fest over that) Kha Rocker Just a few quick examples looking around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwad12345 Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Beast (he's actually under-weight surprised there hasn't been a cry fest over that) Forgot about Beast. He went down for the EPL and I forgot to bring him back up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted January 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 From my understanding there's a cap on KO Power and there's a cap on physicals. A 135er could have max (150) KO power and a 265er can have max KO Power rating of 150 and their KO power isn't altered by weight or height. Same goes with physicals.The energy recovery rate is very real. Lighter guys recover energy much quicker than the heavier ones do. Due to this is seems like a speed advantage for lighter fighters because of their ability to make aggressive moves more frequently than heavier guys. I'm sure it helps when countering vs tired opponents too.Anyway, sliders can sometimes negate this, just like RNG. So nothing is concrete.You have to really respect the RNG factor, which is what makes streaks so impressive. Especially vs quality opponents, because the only thing you cannot counter with training or sliders is RNG and no matter what you do or how good you are, eventually it'll roll in your opponent's favor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentor Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 From my understanding there's a cap on KO Power and there's a cap on physicals. A 135er could have max (150) KO power and a 265er can have max KO Power rating of 150 and they're KO power isn't altered by weight or height. Same goes with physicals. If that is the case, i am shocked there is not more undersized HW fighters. Most orgs do have rules in regards to underweight fighters, for example GAMMA imposes a minimum that your walking weight has to be the same as the minimum for the division (ie, you need to be at least 170lbs to fight at 170lbs, not lower than that). But for HW anyone who cannot cut to 205lbs is allowed to fight at HW and as far as i know, no org has a limit on fighters which lets say weight 227lbs (they cannot cut to 205lbs, so they are legit HW fighters). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
762x39 Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 I agree with the energy recovery at lower weight but I am not convinsed that a heavier fighter has any more KO power. For example my guy Cirkovic http://mmatycoon.com/fighterprofilemanager.php?FID=190108 has fought at 205,265, and 265+. Of those fights I have been KO'ed more times at 205 than any of the others. He has a very good chin, it takes a lot of power to get to it, and he has been KO'ed over 205 twice, but one of them was against Simon Kanitz who was actually lighter than my guy at 205, we were both in a turny and fighting guys heavier than us. He has been KO'ed 3 times at 205, 2 of those were against the same guy Sergei Dimitrovich who has lots of power. So that is a total of 4 KO's against guys 205 or smaller and 1 against a guy at 265, and that one was Deacon Frost who like Sergei hits very hard. I guess what I am saying is that the lighter fighter has an advantage because of the energy without having to worry about getting hit harder. Just my opinion, and only one example but the fastest one I could come up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
762x39 Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 The thing is, which fighter in Tycoon history other than Tonal fought at his weight and had big success against top level HW fighters? Nobody pop's to mind other than him. I am not even certain that i remember small sized HW fighters (i mean 225 or 230lbs for example) having huge success at HW either, so if it is a huge advantage to be smaller, then why dont we get more small sized HW fighters? The answer is simple, speed is an advantage mostly for grappling, at HW they do not plan to grapple because they plan to KO your fighter, so the fact that Tonal still had the chin and power to finish some of the greatest (if not the greatest) HW fighters is a huge accomplishment. I create all my 265 fighters at no more than 250, usually 245. I would probably go lighter than that but I usually go kind of tall usually around 195-200CM I don't want them to be pencils fighting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentor Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 I create all my 265 fighters at no more than 250, usually 245. I would probably go lighter than that but I usually go kind of tall usually around 195-200CM I don't want them to be pencils fighting. Why not if they are winning? It is not as if in Tycoon you can actually see your fighter or something. Also, i have SHW division with no limitations (other than the 227lbs minimum). We only have 2 out of the 21 fighters who are under 245lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 The big negative you could apply to Tonal is that he had a lot of wins from the completely broken takedown engine where he'd go straight to mount, but if we want to start discussing the engine... fuck it remove everyone from more than a year ago, because the engine was always some degree of fucked: we had the era where advance position on the ground wasn't even a fucking slider, the 100% counter era, mount takedowns, counter takedowns when they first came in, leg kicks gassing fighters out through the miracle of their lungs moving to their quads, and instant beast mode escapes -- and to be fair, it probably still is fucked in some way to this day I just don't know where it's fucked yet because I haven't been paying attention -- though subs are still an unreliable piece of shit. Womba was still better than Tonal, though how the fuck he lost to McWhiskey I'll never know (and before someone gets on me about this... one of my fighters fought and beat McWhiskey, and said fighter was a cut prone piece of crap). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentor Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Yeah, it is hard to bring up the "the engine was not working" debate for any of these fighters because to an extent it still has problems. It is what it was and during that time he was a guy who took advantage of the system, the same way that some fighters (Such as Womba) took advantage of issues in the system in his era. Grappling and subs in particular is still broken, so every era had it's own problems. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Haha yeah that's it. Or I've just forgotten more about sliders and the fight engine then you ever knew More like shortmemory it sounds like. Gotta work the brain out so you stop forgetting so much shit homie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aylib Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 How about we move onto other classes now? Let's start where we should- 135lbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted February 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 How about we move onto other classes now? Let's start where we should- 135lbs I started bunching the 135 guys with the 145 guys, haven't had the chance to organize anything or make a list yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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