Different tactics per round

[Guest]

is the logic right with round by round tactics??? im not so sure it is. try to follow me on this.....

 

not all fighters are good at countering in real life and some fighters ARE good at countering, and horrible when trying to be aggressive. thats just a fact. my example is a dan hardy fight that i watched (i cant remember which one though and my internet is too slow to look it up to remember). but in the fight im speaking about, hardy would pull ahead in the fight when he was counter punching. but once he would try to be the aggressive he would start to get tagged.

 

so if i was to tie that into the logic of the game then i would spin it like this: in his camp leading up to the fight he trained for "90% counter" which made him very effective countering but less effective been aggressive. which is fine. but then his (low) intelligence or (high) self confidence caused him to attempt to be aggressive. even though the percentages werent in his favor. to me thats what the sliders represent....if you go 80% leg kicks then that simulates that you worked on leg kicks more than body kicks. or controlling more than finishing. or combo's more than single punches....and if you can just flop from one to the other then it takes that out of the game.

 

 

i'll give you another example:

100% aggressive = prepared to be aggressive leading up to the fight

50/50 aggressive/counter = prepared equally for aggressive and counter leading up to the fight allowing him to be versatile during the fight

100% counter = after scouting his opponent his camp decided to work on countering because that would be the best route for victory

 

basically the sliders = what the focus% was in training. 90% counter means that you spent 90% of your boxing sparring focusing on countering

 

to me, as it is now, its as perfect of a correlation from real life to a game as you can get

[PBR]

is the logic right with round by round tactics??? im not so sure it is. try to follow me on this.....

 

not all fighters are good at countering in real life and some fighters ARE good at countering, and horrible when trying to be aggressive. thats just a fact. my example is a dan hardy fight that i watched (i cant remember which one though and my internet is too slow to look it up to remember). but in the fight im speaking about, hardy would pull ahead in the fight when he was counter punching. but once he would try to be the aggressive he would start to get tagged.

 

so if i was to tie that into the logic of the game then i would spin it like this: in his camp leading up to the fight he trained for "90% counter" which made him very effective countering but less effective been aggressive. which is fine. but then his (low) intelligence or (high) self confidence caused him to attempt to be aggressive. even though the percentages werent in his favor. to me thats what the sliders represent....if you go 80% leg kicks then that simulates that you worked on leg kicks more than body kicks. or controlling more than finishing. or combo's more than single punches....and if you can just flop from one to the other then it takes that out of the game.

 

 

i'll give you another example:

100% aggressive = prepared to be aggressive leading up to the fight

50/50 aggressive/counter = prepared equally for aggressive and counter leading up to the fight allowing him to be versatile during the fight

100% counter = after scouting his opponent his camp decided to work on countering because that would be the best route for victory

 

to me, as it is now, its as perfect of a correlation from real life to a game as you can get

 

im kinda confused as too what you mean -- you mean you have never seen fighters come out trying to weather the storm (countering - like fighting a houston alexander or phil baroni) only to turn up the aggression in later rounds and get the win? it just makes no sense to have to stay at exact same counter or aggression when fighters arent that way --- as you said in your first part there (where you admit it happens)-- you watched hardy do good countering then get handled being aggressive in another round -- just cause it didnt work for him that time doesnt mean it doesnt work and that fighters dont do it -- you hear all the time from fighters i was waiting till later rounds to turn it up once their opponent got tired or weak -- or just waiting till later rounds

[Guest]

I really like this because my main guy is a ground guy but I wouldn't mind trying t tire out the other guy on the feet the first round and then in the second round take him to the ground and finish it.

[Guest]

im kinda confused as too what you mean -- you mean you have never seen fighters come out trying to weather the storm (countering - like fighting a houston alexander or phil baroni) only to turn up the aggression in later rounds and get the win? it just makes no sense to have to stay at exact same counter or aggression when fighters arent that way --- as you said in your first part there (where you admit it happens)-- you watched hardy do good countering then get handled being aggressive in another round -- just cause it didnt work for him that time doesnt mean it doesnt work and that fighters dont do it -- you hear all the time from fighters i was waiting till later rounds to turn it up once their opponent got tired or weak -- or just waiting till later rounds

no, in the hardy fight, he was switching back and forth between aggressive and counter during the round. when he was obviously doing better countering. (i think it was swick) but as swick slowed his pace down then hardy started to push forward and his effectiveness went down. that to me simulates hardy had a high counter slider and high self confidence (or at least higher than swicks).

 

but my point is, the sliders simulate the time you spent focusing on that aspect in training. and you cant say "well, i spent 90% of training working on countering, but plan on the second round been 90% effective been aggressive". how does that work? thats not realistic....if you want to be effective doing both counter and aggressive in a fight then you need to set your slider to 50/50. your fighter will still swap back and forth even at 100% follow orders and if he's intelligent then he'll know which he should be doing late in the fight. you see what im saying?

 

 

i understand your scenario though, you may want to attempt no takedowns in the first 2 rounds and then attempt the shit out of them in the 3rd. but that doesnt make any sense either sense you cant tell how the fight is going anyways. you might as well be blind folded.

[PBR]

no, in the hardy fight, he was switching back and forth between aggressive and counter during the round. when he was obviously doing better countering. (i think it was swick) but as swick slowed his pace down then hardy started to push forward and his effectiveness went down. that to me simulates hardy had a high counter slider and high self confidence (or at least higher than swicks).

 

but my point is, the sliders simulate the time you spent focusing on that aspect in training. and you cant say "well, i spent 90% of training working on countering, but plan on the second round been 90% effective been aggressive". how does that work? thats not realistic....if you want to be effective doing both counter and aggressive in a fight then you need to set your slider to 50/50. your fighter will still swap back and forth even at 100% follow orders and if he's intelligent then he'll know which he should be doing late in the fight. you see what im saying?

 

 

i understand your scenario though, you may want to attempt no takedowns in the first 2 rounds and then attempt the shit out of them in the 3rd. but that doesnt make any sense either sense you cant tell how the fight is going anyways. you might as well be blind folded.

 

well your thinking like some others or worried about people completely switching tatics -- why set to 50/50 for entire fight when thats not what i want to do -- i guess we will just never agree on this but it just seems too easy to understand to me for it not to be put in --- as in the fight i posted about if could of been more aggressive in later rounds i truly feel i would of won -- and their are several fights that way -- maybe its poor game planing on my part i dont know but its the way i think and it seems quite a few others feel the same -- i just cant see the argument of or worrying about fighters totally switching up tatics as a good argument --- as i state you see fighters all the time change up from counter to aggressive by rounds ------- does it make sense to have to set up at lets say 70% stay standing and 60% counter the entire fight just cause you dont want to wear yourself out trying takedowns -- when in the 3 to 5th rounds you can set up and land the takedowns better -- this is true game-planing and scouting to me and true control over your fighter -- on your last part i understand but is it also right to have to try 10 takedowns (cause you cant set it up different - when i might want to attempt one or 2 in each first couple rounds) just cause i hope it gets to later rounds where i can land the takedown more (where i would attempt more takedowns) or as i say having to be aggressive or counter entire fight --- i see plenty of fighters that just come out throwing bombs hope for quick ko -- well you counter that till later rounds when they tire then turn it on (as many fighters do in real life)

[Guest]

perhaps a stall slider or something of the sort is what your looking for?

 

but how do you plan to gameplan against something that you cant figure out (costantly switching tactics)? thats a poor game design in my opinion. and i do believe that your forgetting to factor in that your opponents sliders are gonna be bouncing around ever way as well. which means its just gonna be one big cluster fuck!

 

 

or perhaps you set your "major" set of sliders that sets the effectiveness of each action throughout the entire fight and doesnt change and then you can change your tactics as you please round by round if you like. but even when you change your tactics you still keep the effectiveness originally set in your "major" set of tactics. that is basically what happens when you use "see how it goes"

 

[PBR]

perhaps a stall slider or something of the sort is what your looking for?

 

but how do you plan to gameplan against something that you cant figure out (costantly switching tactics)? thats a poor game design in my opinion. and i do believe that your forgetting to factor in that your opponents sliders are gonna be bouncing around ever way as well. which means its just gonna be one big cluster fuck!

 

 

or perhaps you set your "major" set of sliders that sets the effectiveness of each action throughout the entire fight and doesnt change and then you can change your tactics as you please round by round if you like. but even when you change your tactics you still keep the effectiveness originally set in your "major" set of tactics. that is basically what happens when you use "see how it goes"

 

like i say i guess we will never agree -- i scout my fight different i guess -- just wish i could set them up the way i scout them -- just as the example fight i gave - why would i go in there trying to banging with him or trying takedowns when can counter then turn aggressive in later rounds and win it all day long most of the time -- cause i scouted his fight and know all he does is pure aggression and damage --- let him wear himself down then take him out or force my game plan on him in later rounds ----------- again your scared of constantly switching tatics (why dont you just admit this) -- as i say i dont see this happening cause all the top or not even top fighters win their fights with certain skill sets --- just example you fight chico you have no worries about getting subbed so there is no way he will change tatics like that but now he might be able to change his aggressiveness (same as you would be) --- same with like role you know he is gonna try to take you down i dont see the big deal or worries about totally different tatics -- i mean do you think kane is gonna start subbing people --- lmao -- no -- so the constantly switching tatics or everything is total b/s -- as i say fighters win certain ways so i dont see a total of switching tatics as an issue and if they do so be it -- hell i would love for a competent m/t to try and surprise me and leg kick me all day

[Guest]

like i say i guess we will never agree -- i scout my fight different i guess -- just wish i could set them up the way i scout them -- just as the example fight i gave - why would i go in there trying to banging with him or trying takedowns when can counter then turn aggressive in later rounds and win it all day long most of the time -- cause i scouted his fight and know all he does is pure aggression and damage

see this is a perfect example of what im talking about. you are looking at it only from your own point of view. you say that the other guy doesnt change his tactics, but dont you think that once the other guy is given the option to change his tactics that he might? or do you just give this other guy the credit of a mindless zombie? your basing your entire opinion in this thread on the hopes that the other guy doesnt change his tactics at all and you do...but if he does change his tactics then your "wait til the later rounds" idea doesnt work out and it becomes a mess, based mostly on luck.

 

it seems like the scenario your thinking in your head is: vet vs noob that doesnt change his tactics. which means that the vet can win each time.

 

but what happens when its vet vs vet and they both change there tactics? once again, ONE BIG MESS...

 

 

your scared of constantly switching tatics (why dont you just admit this) --

i think that you need to evacuate your house immediately and torch it after you get out. ajperok is in that mother fucker and typing on your computer!

 

but no in all serousness, i take offense to what you wrote there. im just voicing my opinion for what I think is best for the game. it almost makes me think that you think that your the only person with the ability to think about the different strategies for round by round tactics. which i cant decide if thats embarrassing for you or just cocky. its not like its rocket science so i would settle down on the super intelligent high horse your riding on all of the sudden

[Guest]

I guess i am a little worried about it but mike if you think it would be best then go for it.

[PBR]

i think that you need to evacuate your house immediately and torch it after you get out. ajperok is in that mother fucker and typing on your computer!

 

but no in all serousness, i take offense to what you wrote there. im just voicing my opinion for what I think is best for the game. it almost makes me think that you think that your the only person with the ability to think about the different strategies for round by round tactics. which i cant decide if thats embarrassing for you or just cocky. its not like its rocket science so i would settle down on the super intelligent high horse your riding on all of the sudden

 

well thats your only downfall excuse to it is the "constantly switching tatics" or one big mess (whatever that should or could be - i have no clue -- fights could be big mess now with out it) ----- and pretty much everyone in this thread has agreed they would like to see but you and couple others maybe and even one time you did say you see the advantage of it but now have changed your voice on it -- maybe you like the predictability or simplicity it has right now -- maybe its easier for you to game plan that way ------ and of course the other manager could change his tatics or maybe not you never know do you? unless your physic - are you physic?

 

super intelligent high horse -- lmao -- thats some funny shit where was that from -- you must be running out of stuff --- lol

 

and if you say you see no difference between being able to change aggressive or counter for rounds then guess there is no hope and your blind

[Guest]

well thats your only downfall to it is the "constantly switching tatics" or one big mess (whatever that should or could be - i have no clue -- fights could be big mess now with out it) ----- and pretty much everyone in this thread has agreed they would like to see but you and couple others maybe and even one time you did say you see the advantage of it but now have changed your voice on it ------ and of course the other manager could change his tatics or maybe not you never know do you? unless your physic - are you physic?

 

super intelligent high horse -- lmao -- thats some funny shit where was that from -- you must be running out of stuff --- lol

no im not physic....and no one else is either. thats why round by round tactics would be just "ONE BIG MESS" full of luck and guessing.

 

i'll say it again. your basing your entire opinion on the issue that your opponent will not change his sliders and you will. in that scenario, you'll be able to work your well thought out gameplan. but once you face an opponent that changes his sliders as well, then your well thought out gameplan goes out the window and it becomes musical chairs with sliders. do you not see what im saying?

 

you say im scared. i say thats simply a tactic to divert the debate away from the issues

[PBR]

no im not physic....and no one else is either. thats why round by round tactics would be just "ONE BIG MESS" full of luck and guessing.

 

i'll say it again. your basing your entire opinion on the issue that your opponent will not change his sliders and you will. in that scenario, you'll be able to work your well thought out gameplan. but once you face an opponent that changes his sliders as well, then your well thought out gameplan goes out the window and it becomes musical chairs with sliders. do you not see what im saying?

 

you say im scared. i say thats simply a tactic to divert the debate away from the issues

 

okay they will change their tatics but i dont care if they do cause i still plan on doing my fight the way i set it up -- doesnt matter if they change or not -- so what if they change from 100% aggressive to 100% counter -- it doesnt matter to me cause i still plan on fighting the fight i set up

 

i see what your saying and understand but your saying that on the basis that they will completely switch gameplans and i say i dont see it happening -- chico isnt gonna switch gameplan and start taking your down and subbing you ---- kane isnt gonna completely switch gameplans and take you down -- i feel your thinking the extremists way --- or maybe i should state maybe minor tweaks or changes --- i have no plans on completely switching tatics as i dont think others do either but the ability to make small tweaks or changes per round isnt crazy or gonna be "ONE BIG MESS" as you say -- not to sound like aj but where is your facts on this -- you have none just assumption or whatever it is about totally changing tatics

 

either way not going to set here back and fourth all night with you -- i know both of us could though -- lol

[Guest]

i actually aint talking about extremes. my thoughts didnt go past switching from counter to aggressive actually. considering that thats the way it is now (you choose one or the other and how far each way) and that almost 100% of the time decides whether you win or lose. and now you want to take the most crucial slider of all and just throw it into limbo?

 

but yea, its no sense in repeating the same arguments over and over. i understand things about the game that you probly dont and it effects my thought process and you understand things about the game that i probly dont and it effects your points of view on the game as well. thats just life i guess....

[PBR]

i actually aint talking about extremes. my thoughts didnt go past switching from counter to aggressive actually. considering that thats the way it is now (you choose one or the other and how far each way) and that almost 100% of the time decides whether you win or lose. and now you want to take the most crucial slider of all and just throw it into limbo?

 

but yea, its no sense in repeating the same arguments over and over. i understand things about the game that you probly dont and it effects my thought process and you understand things about the game that i probly dont and it effects your points of view on the game as well. thats just life i guess....

 

just another little deal here just to try and show you why it wont be "ONE BIG MESS" and about your it will be nothing but a guessing game -- our fight awhile back with graham vs nose you stated you thought i would try and take you down and control -- that you didnt think i would stand with you --- well you guessed totally wrong didnt you (meaning its somewhat of a guessing game anyway) -- i never tried to take you down one time -- was that fight "ONE BIG MESS" cause you set your sliders guessing as if i was gonna take you down -- no it was one hell of a good fight and close one -- my point being just cause it might be a guessing game doesnt mean "ONE BIG MESS" -- take our other fight with adams vs nose -- of course i want to go to the ground there but would rather wait till 2nd or 3rd to start with takedown attempts -- but i have to waste energy and points missing them in the first round cause nose is full energy and hard to get down and i have to set my sliders up that way to waste the energy and try the takedown anyway -- i mean some fighters or managers are just too predictable -- now just cause they are predictable doesnt mean you can beat them but having the ability to make some changes gives the chance too instead of just having to stick with one slider settings and hope you got it right for the entire fight (it states a ton of times do not be too predictable with your moves) -- and before you say it yes they can and might change settings too -- too me this only makes in more interesting -- and i dont see this throwing any slider into limbo if anything it would create more diversity and challenges

 

if nothing else just make it where can change the Aggressor/Counter - Stay standing/Try takedowns - Try to clinch/Stay on the outside -- in the stand up section -------- those set the tone for the fight

[Guest]

perhaps a stall slider or something of the sort is what your looking for?

 

but how do you plan to gameplan against something that you cant figure out (costantly switching tactics)? thats a poor game design in my opinion. and i do believe that your forgetting to factor in that your opponents sliders are gonna be bouncing around ever way as well. which means its just gonna be one big cluster fuck!

 

 

or perhaps you set your "major" set of sliders that sets the effectiveness of each action throughout the entire fight and doesnt change and then you can change your tactics as you please round by round if you like. but even when you change your tactics you still keep the effectiveness originally set in your "major" set of tactics. that is basically what happens when you use "see how it goes"

 

In my opinion, setting sliders as they are right now, is about guessing your opponets gameplan. Implementing different tactics per round wouldn't change that. You can't be sure of your opponent's gameplan at the moment either. You will have to guess his game plan. With different tactics per round, it's just that you will have to guess, if your opponent is going to change his tactis, and if you think that he's going to, you'll have to guess how. It would just add more depth to gameplanning and would create more ways for us to set our sliders.

[DeadlyDirk]

Okay I understand that not everyone will see things the same way as me (And PBR who seems to think along the same lines as me) but I really don't see how it turns into one big mess, certainly no more than it is now. (Which in my opinion isn't a mess, just to point that out.)

 

The way things are now I guess there are two ways of setting your sliders. (Correct me if I'm wrong, people may do things differently.) But I guess you either scout your opponent and set your sliders based on your own strengths and what he might do. Or you set your sliders based on your strengths and don't really care about what your opponent tries to do because you're confident in your own ability and perhaps it's worked for you before.

 

So if you brought in tactics per round I don't see what changes other than adding depth to the game? You either set your sliders the second way and ignore what your opponent may do. OR you scout your opponents previous fights, see if he changed tactics per round and then set your sliders accordingly. (Of course the very first fight after any change may be made you couldn't do this but that's no different than when you fight 0-0 fighters.)

 

There are probably not many fighters who are well rounded enough to go for sudden changes from round to round. I don't see anyone being a Muay Thai clinch machine one round and turn into a submission specialist the next pulling guard at every opportunity and then suddenly in the last round they become a big strong wrestler who's a GnP artist. Sure there are some guys with good skills in all areas but so does their competition and surely any fighter is going to fight to their strengths. Sure being a high level purple belt is nice but you're still going to rely on your Exceptional Boxing if you come up against a black belt. The levels are purely for examples, it doesn't matter if your best attribute is Elite or Respectable, most fighters are still going to work to their strengths and if they are not then they're probably not already anyway.

 

I just think there are a lot of ways this could improve the fight engine and set your fighter up with a better game plan to beat your opponent which are commonly used in MMA. Examples such as.

 

1. Weaken the legs in the early rounds, don't waste your energy or time trying takedowns and then in the latter rounds you want to try and take him down when he's at his weakest.

2. Working against a speedy fighter with good defences you may want to attack the body early on but later on in the fight when he has slowed down you want to go for the head and aim for the knockout.

3. When you feel you have a conditioning advantage you may want to counter a lot early on, wear a guy down and then later on when he's really tired look to push the pace and turn up the aggression on him.

4. Clinch a guy against the cage early on, control him and again drain his energy and then later on you don't want to do this so much as you want to start going on the attack.

5. Wear a guy down with GnP early on in the fight and then later on look to pass guard more and go for submissions from a more dominant position.

 

These are just some examples, I'm sure there are more that other people can add. It would then be my job as an opponent to scout the guys previous fights just as I do now and try to defend against this. It's up to me to spot the guy who goes for leg kicks early on and takedowns later and then counter against it with my own strategy, If I don't spot it then that's my problem, maybe I should have scouted him better. Even if a guy was so well rounded that he could switch up his gameplan at the start of every round, it's up to me to spot that he's going to do that and counter against it. If my guy isn't well rounded enough to do that then again that's tough luck.

 

As I mentioned before, hiddens could play a big factor in all of this such as experience and intelligence, some fighters would be better than others at adapting their game plan and it would just be another thing as a manager that you have to look out for.

[Guest]

Okay I understand that not everyone will see things the same way as me (And PBR who seems to think along the same lines as me) but I really don't see how it turns into one big mess, certainly no more than it is now. (Which in my opinion isn't a mess, just to point that out.)

 

The way things are now I guess there are two ways of setting your sliders. (Correct me if I'm wrong, people may do things differently.) But I guess you either scout your opponent and set your sliders based on your own strengths and what he might do. Or you set your sliders based on your strengths and don't really care about what your opponent tries to do because you're confident in your own ability and perhaps it's worked for you before.

 

So if you brought in tactics per round I don't see what changes other than adding depth to the game? You either set your sliders the second way and ignore what your opponent may do. OR you scout your opponents previous fights, see if he changed tactics per round and then set your sliders accordingly. (Of course the very first fight after any change may be made you couldn't do this but that's no different than when you fight 0-0 fighters.)

 

There are probably not many fighters who are well rounded enough to go for sudden changes from round to round. I don't see anyone being a Muay Thai clinch machine one round and turn into a submission specialist the next pulling guard at every opportunity and then suddenly in the last round they become a big strong wrestler who's a GnP artist. Sure there are some guys with good skills in all areas but so does their competition and surely any fighter is going to fight to their strengths. Sure being a high level purple belt is nice but you're still going to rely on your Exceptional Boxing if you come up against a black belt. The levels are purely for examples, it doesn't matter if your best attribute is Elite or Respectable, most fighters are still going to work to their strengths and if they are not then they're probably not already anyway.

 

I just think there are a lot of ways this could improve the fight engine and set your fighter up with a better game plan to beat your opponent which are commonly used in MMA. Examples such as.

 

1. Weaken the legs in the early rounds, don't waste your energy or time trying takedowns and then in the latter rounds you want to try and take him down when he's at his weakest.

2. Working against a speedy fighter with good defences you may want to attack the body early on but later on in the fight when he has slowed down you want to go for the head and aim for the knockout.

3. When you feel you have a conditioning advantage you may want to counter a lot early on, wear a guy down and then later on when he's really tired look to push the pace and turn up the aggression on him.

4. Clinch a guy against the cage early on, control him and again drain his energy and then later on you don't want to do this so much as you want to start going on the attack.

5. Wear a guy down with GnP early on in the fight and then later on look to pass guard more and go for submissions from a more dominant position.

 

These are just some examples, I'm sure there are more that other people can add. It would then be my job as an opponent to scout the guys previous fights just as I do now and try to defend against this. It's up to me to spot the guy who goes for leg kicks early on and takedowns later and then counter against it with my own strategy, If I don't spot it then that's my problem, maybe I should have scouted him better. Even if a guy was so well rounded that he could switch up his gameplan at the start of every round, it's up to me to spot that he's going to do that and counter against it. If my guy isn't well rounded enough to do that then again that's tough luck.

 

As I mentioned before, hiddens could play a big factor in all of this such as experience and intelligence, some fighters would be better than others at adapting their game plan and it would just be another thing as a manager that you have to look out for.

 

This is exactly what I tried to say in my previous post. So I agree completely.

[Guest]

OR you scout your opponents previous fights, see if he changed tactics per round and then set your sliders accordingly.

 

you see this is the point that i keep making. you say scout your opponent and see what he does and if he changes his slider, but how are you supposed to do that? becuase you dont know whether your opponents changing his sliders or your opponents' opponent is changing his sliders....you see? since you dont know what your opponents sliders look like or your opponents' opponents sliders then your not gonna know who's changing there sliders.......even if both guys are counter then one will still appear to be aggressive. so that's a hard curveball to figure the way it is now. even more so with changing sliders....plus, it would also be impossible to determine how much your opponent goes for damage vs acc with out getting a round by round stat read out (which we dont get). and also, without a round by round readout of stats, then how are you supposed to know if you opponent goes for more takedowns or leg kicks or etc. later in the rounds? i guess just go back and count them all up manually line by line?

 

 

These are just some examples, I'm sure there are more that other people can add. It would then be my job as an opponent to scout the guys previous fights just as I do now and try to defend against this. It's up to me to spot the guy who goes for leg kicks early on and takedowns later and then counter against it with my own strategy, If I don't spot it then that's my problem, maybe I should have scouted him better. Even if a guy was so well rounded that he could switch up his gameplan at the start of every round, it's up to me to spot that he's going to do that and counter against it. If my guy isn't well rounded enough to do that then again that's tough luck.

 

like i said before, its more than just looking at your opponent and saying "okay, whats he try to do". it also involves looking at the sliders that your opponents' opponent used. as it is now its 1 slider setup vs 1 slider setup when scouting an opponent, which honestly isnt always the easiest to peg. with round by round tactics, its gonna be 3 slider setups vs 3 slider setups that you'll have to scout and you dont know for sure if one of the guys is even changing his setups. simply because all it takes is one fighter to change his setup and it can make a fight look totally different. even when one side stays completely the same.....

[PBR]

you see this is the point that i keep making. you say scout your opponent and see what he does and if he changes his slider, but how are you supposed to do that? becuase you dont know whether your opponents changing his sliders or your opponents' opponent is changing his sliders....you see? since you dont know what your opponents sliders look like or your opponents' opponents sliders then your not gonna know who's changing there sliders.......even if both guys are counter then one will still appear to be aggressive. so that's a hard curveball to figure the way it is now. even more so with changing sliders....plus, it would also be impossible to determine how much your opponent goes for damage vs acc with out getting a round by round stat read out (which we dont get). and also, without a round by round readout of stats, then how are you supposed to know if you opponent goes for more takedowns or leg kicks or etc. later in the rounds? i guess just go back and count them all up manually line by line?

 

 

 

 

like i said before, its more than just looking at your opponent and saying "okay, whats he try to do". it also involves looking at the sliders that your opponents' opponent used. as it is now its 1 slider setup vs 1 slider setup when scouting an opponent, which honestly isnt always the easiest to peg. with round by round tactics, its gonna be 3 slider setups vs 3 slider setups that you'll have to scout and you dont know for sure if one of the guys is even changing his setups. simply because all it takes is one fighter to change his setup and it can make a fight look totally different. even when one side stays completely the same.....

 

well im not speaking for everyone but i dont care how my opponent has his sliders set sometimes --- its about trying to get my game plan to work -- wasting energy on takedown attempts in first when i rather wait too do it -- counter first or two then turn aggression on in later in stand up -- other examples can be used for a game plan but i dont feel like posting them all ------- this all has nothing to do with my opponents sliders at all but with what i want to do -- it makes no difference if they start changing counter or aggression at all -- maybe they do change and out game plan or think me but thats the game -- now this isnt for every fight i have but a lot of them --- as i also gave examples above in our two fights -- it will not be a big mess as you say -- and you just keep say its gonna be a guessing game -- well as posted its somewhat of a guessing game as is -- just like you guessed i would take you down in that fight

[Guest]

this all has nothing to do with my opponents sliders at all but with what i want to do -- now this isnt for every fight i have but a lot of them

this has everything to do with what your opponent tries to do! because the simple reason that your opponents sliders decide just what exactly you CAN/WILL do, successfully

 

 

just like in the nose vs graham fight that you mentioned above. in that fight i wanted to attempt just a few takedowns per 10 moves. yet your sliders effected my sliders and the next thing i know, my guy is attempting takedowns out of the ass. simply becuase of how your sliders wer set vs my sliders. i didnt want to do that but YOUR sliders manipulated my sliders in such a way that my fighter began to do things that he wasnt instructed to do! so it has everything to do with your opponents sliders

 

not to mention that you have hiddens at work here as well that further complicate how you interpret a fight

[PBR]

this has everything to do with what your opponent tries to do! because the simple reason that your opponents sliders decide just what exactly you CAN/WILL do, successfully

 

 

just like in the nose vs graham fight that you mentioned above. in that fight i wanted to attempt just a few takedowns per 10 moves. yet your sliders effected my sliders and the next thing i know, my guy is attempting takedowns out of the ass. simply becuase of how your sliders wer set vs my sliders. i didnt want to do that but YOUR sliders manipulated my sliders in such a way that my fighter began to do things that he wasnt instructed to do! so it has everything to do with your opponents sliders

 

not to mention that you have hiddens at work here as well that further complicate how you interpret a fight

 

explain yourself there some more --- how did my slider set up make you try a bunch of takedowns -- lol -- what did he do that he wasnt instructed to do? maybe you had your see how it goes slider too far

[Guest]

explain yourself there some more --- how did my slider set up make you try a bunch of takedowns -- lol -- what did he do that he wasnt instructed to do? maybe you had your see how it goes slider too far

"maybe you had your see how it goes slider too far".......maybe i didnt, or maybe i did

 

but the fact is, fighters will choose, or at random (depending on see how it goes), perform different moves. i had my sliders set in such a way that i was lobbying more on "attempt less with higher landing %". but once your sliders took there toll on my sliders, then my sliders went from "attempt less with higher landing %" to "attempt less with LOWER landing %". which in turn made me attempt more than what i ever intended on attempting....if you can follow that. i put it as vague as possible, but hopefully you get my drift

[PBR]

"maybe you had your see how it goes slider too far".......maybe i didnt, or maybe i did

 

but the fact is, fighters will choose, or at random (depending on see how it goes), perform different moves. i had my sliders set in such a way that i was lobbying more on "attempt less with higher landing %". but once your sliders took there toll on my sliders, then my sliders went from "attempt less with higher landing %" to "attempt less with LOWER landing %". which in turn made me attempt more than what i ever intended on attempting....if you can follow that. i put it as vague as possible, but hopefully you get my drift

 

i dont use see how it goes so wasnt me -- --- fighters will choose? yea if you use see how it goes -- so was that your problem you used see how it goes then your fighter made bad choices? -- if so then you wasnt using a game plan or trying to execute something you were just hoping your fighter would do it for you

 

by looking at the fight you did want you wanted to -- it looks like you did a few attempts per 10 moves (moves also include counter or defensive) so it looks like maybe you did your game plan or slider settings

[DeadlyDirk]

you see this is the point that i keep making. you say scout your opponent and see what he does and if he changes his slider, but how are you supposed to do that? becuase you dont know whether your opponents changing his sliders or your opponents' opponent is changing his sliders....you see? since you dont know what your opponents sliders look like or your opponents' opponents sliders then your not gonna know who's changing there sliders.......even if both guys are counter then one will still appear to be aggressive. so that's a hard curveball to figure the way it is now. even more so with changing sliders....plus, it would also be impossible to determine how much your opponent goes for damage vs acc with out getting a round by round stat read out (which we dont get). and also, without a round by round readout of stats, then how are you supposed to know if you opponent goes for more takedowns or leg kicks or etc. later in the rounds? i guess just go back and count them all up manually line by line?

 

 

 

 

like i said before, its more than just looking at your opponent and saying "okay, whats he try to do". it also involves looking at the sliders that your opponents' opponent used. as it is now its 1 slider setup vs 1 slider setup when scouting an opponent, which honestly isnt always the easiest to peg. with round by round tactics, its gonna be 3 slider setups vs 3 slider setups that you'll have to scout and you dont know for sure if one of the guys is even changing his setups. simply because all it takes is one fighter to change his setup and it can make a fight look totally different. even when one side stays completely the same.....

 

Well when it's things like takedowns, direction of strikes etc then yes, you'd read the fight and it would be pretty obvious in my opinion which rounds they go for more takedowns, leg kicks etc. That's how I scout fights at the moment, by reading them and seeing what they do. A stats per round snapshot could also be added if this idea ever came into place.

 

There's a lot of things you need to read fights for though anyway if you want to know exactly what your opponent is doing, such as how many clinch attempts do they make, when they go into ''SFTF' or 'FFD' mode and how quickly they gas etc, these things are already not shown in the stats screen. For things like damage and accuracy you can't always tell just from the stats. Sure if someone lands a lot of strikes you can assume they are going for accuracy but it could just be that they have very good striking skills against someone who has no striking defence but an iron chin.

 

As I said before though, adding tactics per round would no doubt take a lot of work and coding but I'm fairly certain that a Rd by Rd stats screen would be relatively easy to implement as part of it if people felt it was needed.

 

As for aggression and counter sure it would make it harder to tell who's changed their gameplan but as you said, "that almost 100% of the time decides whether you win or lose" so it shouldn't be easy to figure out anyway. It would just come down to scouting your opponent in more detail over a series of fights. E.g. If it appears that Fighter A is the counter fighter in the 2nd round of all his fights then that's probably because he has changed his slider to a high counter setting. Sure it could be that all of his opponents turned up the aggression in round 2 but that's not as likely. You mentioned a real life comparison that Hardy looked to turn up the aggression against Swick. Can you sure of that or did Swick look to go on the counter and baited Hardy into coming at him a bit more as he himself had been unsuccesful as the aggressor?

 

Also to elminate some of the 'guesswork' there could always be more clues in the commentary such as 'Fighter A seems to have turned up his aggression in this round' much like the 'SFTF' text or 'Fighter B' seems to be looking to counter more now.

 

 

 

[Guest]

i dont use see how it goes so wasnt me -- --- fighters will choose? yea if you use see how it goes -- so was that your problem you used see how it goes then your fighter made bad choices? -- if so then you wasnt using a game plan or trying to execute something you were just hoping your fighter would do it for you

even if you dont use "100% follow orders" then it still semi-randomly flops from one move to the other

by looking at the fight you did want you wanted to -- it looks like you did a few attempts per 10 moves (moves also include counter or defensive) so it looks like maybe you did your game plan or slider settings

this is what i explained in the post before. i had my sliders set to have a higher landing percentage on the takedowns. your sliders indirectly caused me to attempt more than what i had planned through missed attempts via your sliders. im not explaining this out because im just not gonna do it.....