Fight Engine Discussion

[sabaton]

I agree, I didn't like the physical skill cap when it was mentioned and still don't. I was hoping that was forgotten about! I just hope it is not crazy low, I think I remember something like enough skill points to be remarkable on everything, that is just to low. I would probably not complain if you were given enough to hit exceptional on everything, that way you could still build elite cardio without leaving something really low.

I am definitely not a fan of the physicals cap either

There are better ways to create fighter variety

Not to mention, look at the ufc fighters. They are all in insane shape. Cutting physicals wouldnt even be realistic. Cutting skill points is much more realistic

[bjornmma1]

This is a fight simulator first, right? I think the game runs decently well as is. Could there be some improvements and fixings? Sure. But as a fight simulator I'd say there's nothing broken with it. There's positives for the economy being the way it is. It certainly helps newer managers compete with the 'old guard' quicker due to the access of finances and capability of running private gyms + orgs. Really don't see how the 'broken economy' breaks the game.

 

 

oh, and humours be humours for a while please. bother Mike. delay the physical skill cap as long as possible. lol.

100% agree with your statement!

[stpierrecanada]

I'm okay with the raise in VIP, I know Mike would be reasonable about it.

 

But I think the game is good right now, no huge changes just because some people aren't having amazing success all the time.small adjustments and things are fine but nothing to drastic.

[MasterLeader]

I disagree. Keep vip but offer more shit to spend it on, like fighter slots

If it is raised, give a bigger freaking price cut for buying multiple years. Right now you save 1 lousy dollar for buying 2 years.

I think your first vip purchase should be cheap. I would not have bothered with the game if i had to spend $50-60 a year off the bat.

 

And fix the economy. Increase the low end, downgrade the high end.

How about keep the 1 year price the same, but raise the 6 month price by 25% and the 3 month price by 50%?

[Guest]

If VIP is going to be raised the penalty for sacking fighters needs to be reduced significantly. If I create 2 fighters and get 2 cutters who take 4 hits and the fight is over.. that's going to add up quickly with VIP. Really makes wanting to rebuild a roster not worth it knowing you will blow through months and months of VIP.

[Mentor]

I think a lot of you people have failed to understand that the problem with the game at the moment is the lack of income, which means that any changes which are not increasing the income some way should be pushed aside. The 2 things which do not need screwing around with are the fight engine and the economy, so many people bring up both issues, but i would say that screwing around with either of those could actually lead to more people leaving (ie, less money, not more). I still do not get the point of screwing around with the physicals, i hear as many or more people disagreeing with this feature.

 

The most obvious money making addition would be to allow for 1 "gym slot" for a fixed price, this will be a private slot you can only use for your own fighters. This will help increase income + will help burn away cash. Another obvious one would be to make 16-17y olds by default at least "average" learners because spending 45 days or 90 days of VIP to find out your fighter is a very slow learner makes the younger fighters less of an advantage. An increase in VIP price by a little is not a huge issue, up to 40-45$ for 1 year VIP is debatable, maybe for people paying for 5 year VIP should be able to get today's rate of 30$ per year (ie 150$ for 5 years), so long term members will still be able to get top price. These are just a few things which should increase income significantly and wont need a lot of time to implement.

[JakeF]

I'd like to see separate skill caps for primaries and secondaries, with secondary skills cap allowing you to train more skills to elite(you could be a grappler and still throw some kicks, eh?), while primary skills cap should be lower in order to have fighters with specialized disciplines - boxer, wrestler etc. I think there will be more finishes that way and more interesting fights. Plus, speaking of realism, it's hard for a fighter to be an expert in 4 disciplines.

[Mentor]

Why bother changing that? Just leave it. I mean by adding a cap to primaries, will it increase members joining? No. Will it increase profits? No. Will it take time to code? Yes. Will it piss off some people? Maybe. I know for a fact that fight engine or fighter build changes have led to more people leaving that more people joining, so why make those type of changes in 2017. Besides that, Mike won't make such changes anyway, because he knows it won't change anything.

 

End of the day, considering that the budget is close to non-existent, the changes made should either be enhancing (adding to the existing game) or increasing income. The above decision is a typical "screwing around with the existing" system but not really improving anything. Forget what happens in real life. If you want to focus on real life, then weight cutting should change totally because in this game cutting loads of weight is a disadvantage, i do not see a problem with that though because this is a fictional universe with it's own rules.

[JakeF]

Well, if you think that improving the gameplay shouldn't be a goal for the game development, then I don't see a point in discussing with you. If Mike should make every change based on what brings income, then there won't be long until we see an offer to pay 500 VIP days and get a fighter with max hiddens...

 

Also I thought that this is fight engine discussion so I expressed my opinion on what I'd like to see changed about fight engine and fighter stats that could improve the game.

[MasterLeader]

Well, if you think that improving the gameplay shouldn't be a goal for the game development, then I don't see a point in discussing with you. If Mike should make every change based on what brings income, then there won't be long until we see an offer to pay 500 VIP days and get a fighter with max hiddens...

 

Also I thought that this is fight engine discussion so I expressed my opinion on what I'd like to see changed about fight engine and fighter stats that could improve the game.

While I agree we should prioritise the fight engine, I agree with Mentor in the sense that the game needs funds FIRST in order for Mike to muster the motivation to develop the game properly. Hence this way round.

[Mentor]

Well, if you think that improving the gameplay shouldn't be a goal for the game development, then I don't see a point in discussing with you. If Mike should make every change based on what brings income, then there won't be long until we see an offer to pay 500 VIP days and get a fighter with max hiddens...

 

Also I thought that this is fight engine discussion so I expressed my opinion on what I'd like to see changed about fight engine and fighter stats that could improve the game.

 

I was responding to what Mike said (ie that the game is not earning much money and essentially he is doing something else now due to it). Unless he starts earning more, he won't be spending much more time on any "developing".

[Guest]

 

I was responding to what Mike said (ie that the game is not earning much money and essentially he is doing something else now due to it). Unless he starts earning more, he won't be spending much more time on any "developing".

I think you're right, unless Mike starts earning a bit more from it and it makes it worth the effort this game could go down the toilet which would be a huge shame. I'm a relative noob compared to some of you guys as I have only played for the last 3 years but it's been a great time and has flown by. It worries me now to see so many big names leaving the game and so many orgs closing or changing hands......no orgs = no game. The extra 'gym slot' for VIP or something like someone else has said in this thread could fix that problem and let some people open an org without having to sacrifice decent training for their fighters. I doubt everyone would open one as it's a lot of work (to run it properly) but it could be a good catalyst for people to create more new fighters which might generate a bit more VIP whilst creating them etc.

[bjornmma1]

I think you're right, unless Mike starts earning a bit more from it and it makes it worth the effort this game could go down the toilet which would be a huge shame. I'm a relative noob compared to some of you guys as I have only played for the last 3 years but it's been a great time and has flown by. It worries me now to see so many big names leaving the game and so many orgs closing or changing hands......no orgs = no game. The extra 'gym slot' for VIP or something like someone else has said in this thread could fix that problem and let some people open an org without having to sacrifice decent training for their fighters. I doubt everyone would open one as it's a lot of work (to run it properly) but it could be a good catalyst for people to create more new fighters which might generate a bit more VIP whilst creating them etc.

http://www.mmatycoon.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=55996&page=1

[coton81]

Mike mentioned above about raising cost of VIP time, I wouldnt have an issue at all in that going up some, I been playing a long time and it has never went up that I remember. Another thing that would help him gain extra money was mentioned in one of the ethics posts about running a second company for extra VIP days, if we were charged 1.25 days per day to run a second one, instead of the 1 to 1 now. I would do that and open a second gym and make that public so more people could get better training. I am sure others would pay for a second one also, most would probably be ORGS or nutrition companies or something. But he would probably get a lot more VIP that way. Say increase the 1 year to 40 then calulate it at the 1.25 to 1 and he would get a decent raise I would think.

 

Just an idea.

i wouldn't have a problem with raising the cost of vip if its a fair raise of course

 

also charging VIP days for a extra company might work as it would hopefully encourage more people to buy vip thus im proving mikes income from the game which all in all isn't a bad thing

[Mentor]

http://www.mmatycoon.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=55996&page=1

 

That wont increase Mike's budget though. Simply giving people a gym the same way they have a bookie will actually mean "less money" because not they often pay someone else to hold onto such a gym slot. If a person can "buy" the slot, then it will increase the budget because people will pay an extra 30$ to get it. I am sure that will be an instant few thousand $ to the yearly budget and i doubt many people will argue such a feature.

[Mentor]

i wouldn't have a problem with raising the cost of vip if its a fair raise of course

 

also charging VIP days for a extra company might work as it would hopefully encourage more people to buy vip thus im proving mikes income from the game which all in all isn't a bad thing

 

I am not too keen on the other company slots, but to be honest, so what? If someone is willing to pay extra for that slot, why not? I kind of miss running a rookie org. One thing for certain though, a private gym slot would be universally supported.

[Guest]

 

I am not too keen on the other company slots, but to be honest, so what? If someone is willing to pay extra for that slot, why not? I kind of miss running a rookie org. One thing for certain though, a private gym slot would be universally supported.

 

Well you make 10 million annually so the money is not a problem for you but what about other users who will not be able to afford paid companies and other stuff? The the game will come down to who has the most money.

[Mentor]

 

Well you make 10 million annually so the money is not a problem for you but what about other users who will not be able to afford paid companies and other stuff? The the game will come down to who has the most money.

 

If it does not start earning money, it will close, that is something else to consider.

[MMATycoon]

A separate physicals cap just makes it a flat out better game. People are opposed to it because they've had to put time into physical beasts but it helps in multiple ways.

1. It's quicker to make new fighters, so people don't get a stale roster.

2. It changes things up a bit. People leave when they get bored with fights, first and foremost. You can't keep playing the same game forever. So if I never made any changes to the fight engine, people quit. This is a pretty minor change in terms of adaption but it's at least kinda interesting.

 

As for increasing VIP time, I should have said I'm only thinking like 10%. I would like to leave the $10 starter price because it sounds neat and tidy. The $18 can stay as it is or go to $19 then I think I'd just put $3-4 on the 1 year VIP. Those steps then still work in terms of fair increases.

 

As for paying for extra stuff, I never want it to be pay to win and I've always said that. I'm fine with $ for extra slots etc though.

 

In terms of fixing the economy, I just wanna concentrate on doing one thing first to get back into the swing of things then we'll try and tackle that in a bit.... it'll require a lot of discussion first.

[Rambo]

I think you lose more people when changes are made, then you gain or retain by making changes... especially when people go on a losing streak after changes are made.

 

 

just my opinion.

[Mentor]

I think you lose more people when changes are made, then you gain or retain by making changes... especially when people go on a losing streak after changes are made.

 

 

just my opinion.

 

This is not only my opinion, it is also a fact. I know that in the past when changes were made we lost members. I do not remember an engine change which was universally supported AND increased members in any way. I still do not understand why a physical cap will help the game (and the mentioned reasons are insignificant in terms of improvement). I see it causing masses of issues though, especially if you focused on building up your physical skills as a priority. I mean where will those skill points go? You simply lose them? If that is the case, this is a terrible addition.

 

Any engine changes are generally terrible because developing a fighter will take over a year, so if you come and say "hey, i decided to remove 100 or 200 points from these particular secondaries", do you think it will improve my gaming experience? I get the debate that we have fighters which are very similar now, the easiest solution is simply adding more primary + secondary skills. You can maybe even add more physical skills. This will give us much more diversity to the fighting game, but even that change i do not see the point, the fight engine works fine as it is.

[JakeF]

With introducing physicals cap, there should be more control over training physicals than now. For example, you get points to balance by training almost everything. So far i did not care about it because there wasnt a cap but if there is one i would like to have further control over what my fighter is training.

 

Also, Mike, do you think this change will affect the % of fight finishesh at top level? I am with any change that reduces the amount of decision outcomes.

 

To make this change fair to everyone, no matter how much physicals has he trained, you could simply take the proportion new cap/old cap and multiply the fighter's current physicals with the coef. you would get from the proportion. For example:

 

Current physical cap is 6 x 150 = 900 pts

 

You decide that new physical cap should be 700 pts

 

So coef. is going to be 7/9 = 0.78

 

If my fighter has 145 agility now, after changes he should have 0.78 x 145 = 113.10 agility.

 

Or you can just multiply the whole physicals sum with thr coef. and let people rearrange those skills.

 

I think that way no one will be hurt from the change.

[Mentor]

I think that way no one will be hurt from the change.

 

You will still be hurt if your primary focus was to train physical's to begin with. Some people start by first building up their physical skills and then developing the secondaries and lastly primaries. If these changes are made it will essentially mean that you spent the last 3-4 month building up your rookie fighter and part of those skills are lost. In the case of established fighter's it will influence less because as you mentioned everyone gets hit and most fighters already have Elite (or close to Elite) levels of physical skills. This is not the case with younger fighter's though.

[JakeF]

 

You will still be hurt if your primary focus was to train physical's to begin with. Some people start by first building up their physical skills and then developing the secondaries and lastly primaries. If these changes are made it will essentially mean that you spent the last 3-4 month building up your rookie fighter and part of those skills are lost. In the case of established fighter's it will influence less because as you mentioned everyone gets hit and most fighters already have Elite (or close to Elite) levels of physical skills. This is not the case with younger fighter's though.

 

 

Why? If your physicals were close to the old cap(all elite++) they will be close to the new cap too... Yeah, you could never make a change that will be 100% fair to everyone but this looks like the swiftest way to do it. It might be hard for some older users to get used to the new changes, but if a game doesn't evolve gameplay-wise, after a while it will become boring to everyone and they will stop playing it.

 

Mike could also give the points difference between new cap and what physicals you had over the cap to be distributed for primaries and secondaries so you weren't training CTs for nothing.

[Mentor]

 

 

Why? If your physicals were close to the old cap(all elite++) they will be close to the new cap too... Yeah, you could never make a change that will be 100% fair to everyone but this looks like the swiftest way to do it. It might be hard for some older users to get used to the new changes, but if a game doesn't evolve gameplay-wise, after a while it will become boring to everyone and they will stop playing it.

 

Mike could also give the points difference between new cap and what physicals you had over the cap to be distributed for primaries and secondaries so you weren't training CTs for nothing.

 

I meant this change will cause a problem with the younger fighters if you focused on physicals first. For older fighters it will work fine the way you mentioned. Also if you do what you mentioned (ie, give you points on the other secondaries) what difference will it make end of the day? We will have a bunch of people with Exceptional+ (for example) on all their physicals and simply more points on the other secondaries. This change wont influence anything in the gameplay, in fact it will make the problem even worse! Why? Because it will mean people are forced to stack on the other skills.

 

There potential solutions are:

 

#1 adding more primary and/or secondary skills, this will be the most difficult to do, but it will most certainly be the most interesting.

#2 reduce the peak of all fighters by a certain amount (so instead of peaking at 2600 or 2750, your peak will be 10-20% lower). This will be the easiest to do, especially if people are allowed to pick what they want to reduce.

#3 do the opposite of #2, in other words increase the current maximum of all skills from 150 to something else. If people are allowed to relocate their skills, it wont cause a lot of issues.

#4 you can add the cap on physicals, but you will still need to do either #2 or #3 because if you do not, it will mean secondary + primary skills will be even more stacked than now (because you will be forced to have more points on the remaining skills).

 

I really do not see the point of fiddling around with physical skills though, that is not the main problem anyway, the problem is that too many fighters are "similar" and the reason for that is that certain skills are less valuable (elbows, submissions, knees etc) so they end up stacking up on the main / useful skills. If #2 or #3 happens, then we wont have this problem. If we simply cap physical skills, it will be a huge mistake and will cause way more problems than it solves. I talk to veteran managers all the time and i have never ever heard a complaint about "how screwed up" the physical's are. I still hear the odd complaint about the ranking system, but that has seriously improved.

 

Maybe we should have a vote on this? Veteran managers should be asked because they are the ones most affected by this (since they have invested time in these fighters). I bet most people would be against capping the physical's.