Different tactics per round

[Grasman]

Have to agree with Chris on this one.

 

 

 

First Example: SHIG does this.

 

Second Example: SHIG does this.

 

Third Example: SHIG does this.

 

Fourth Example: SHIG does this.

 

 

Yes, Shig does this based on the fighters intelligence and it wouldn't be horrible to have the ability to nerd your way through setting each round while on full FMO, while at the same time NOT BEING FORCED TO DO THAT!

 

Setting each round on FMO can obviously backfire bigtime, so it's not the "end all be all" whether this is implemented or not.

 

It should be presented as "advanced fight setup", if implemented at all.

[Rambo]

I always thought that hidden to FMO was related to intelligence or experience.

 

Yes, Shig does this based on the fighters intelligence and it wouldn't be horrible to have the ability to nerd your way through setting each round while on full FMO, while at the same time NOT BEING FORCED TO DO THAT!

 

Setting each round on FMO can obviously backfire bigtime, so it's not the "end all be all" whether this is implemented or not.

 

It should be presented as "advanced fight setup", if implemented at all.

 

It should never be implemented. Over complication of things. Mike himself has stated the difficulties of it and the potential nonsense that would come with round by round tactics. I think he'd need to completely revamp the engine - or some part of it - to maintain the balance of the game, and even then there's some major flaws/problems it would bring.

 

With new stats, engine changes, etc we open up the possibilities of TD spam / 100% counter era all over again. I'll take playing it safe over sorry on this catagory especially since I'm not a fan of the idea before the potential complications it'd bring to the system. I've always thought it'd be a cheap way confuse the engine. I'd rather we eliminated the FMO and SHIG slider before adding round by round tactics.

 

The only option I'd ever agree with that has to do with other rounds would be FMO / SHIG. If FMO or SHIG in round 1 didn't work, the ability to FMO or SHIG at the start of round 2, without adding a whole sheet of tactics per round. Just simplify it to FMO or SHIG. No other tactics, just a SHIG / FMO box.

 

 

5:43 AM rambling. You pointed out how it could backfire big time... lol. That being said, I think it's much better this idea were to die off, despite what the majority voted. It's better to piss everybody off for the greater good of the game.

[Warwynd]

If anything an improvement to SHIG/FMO would possibly be in order. But as others have said Intelligence hidden does play a factor in this as well.

 

Someone mentioned a FMO hidden and I have never heard anything like that at all... if there were such a hidden then it seems likely that like all the other hiddens then we could opt to put an extra 30 points into it at character creation. The Intelligence hidden is what we have to help with the FMO/SHIG hidden.

[AlexiZaitev]

If anything an improvement to SHIG/FMO would possibly be in order. But as others have said Intelligence hidden does play a factor in this as well.

 

Someone mentioned a FMO hidden and I have never heard anything like that at all... if there were such a hidden then it seems likely that like all the other hiddens then we could opt to put an extra 30 points into it at character creation. The Intelligence hidden is what we have to help with the FMO/SHIG hidden.

there isnt a hidden that really helps with FMO, but, through experience confident fighters seem to do better on FMO. Emphasis on the word seem as I do not really have any experience, but this has come from sources I trust when it comes to these things, I can point to as I generally go about 70% FMO for most of my fighters.

[Grasman]

I'm sorry guys, but as far as i'm aware you are both wrong, Warwind and Alexei.

 

In the tickbox section (when creating a fighter), there is a tickbox for "Knows how to adapt his gameplan".

 

As far as i'm aware, this is the hidden for "Follow my orders",, e.g the gameplan i set for him.

Basically his FMO intelligence, (possibly also for Shig,, not as convinced about that.)

 

I ticked this box for my original fighters no 9 through to no15, and most of thiose fighters turned out to follow the gameplan very intelligently. They didn't only punch in one round and then headkick in the second, then go for loads of clinches in the third, like some of my previous "thicko fighters" have done.

 

These fighters i selected "Knows how to adapt his gameplan" for, are much better of using all their attacks, mixing them up relatively evenly throughout the fight.

 

It wouldn't make any sense at all in a extremely well thought out fight engine, to have all these hiddens for intelligence, Heart etc... only to have all fighters equal under FMO.

 

So, that hidden has been one of my favorite ones, until the recent engine changes, where having a great chin, heart and KO power means everything in the game now.

 

I would really like to be corrected by Mike if i'm wrong on this subject, because going by my "in game" experience this is how it pans out.

[Warwynd]

I'm sorry guys, but as far as i'm aware you are both wrong, Warwind and Alexei.

 

In the tickbox section (when creating a fighter), there is a tickbox for "Knows how to adapt his gameplan".

 

As far as i'm aware, this is the hidden for "Follow my orders",, e.g the gameplan i set for him.

Basically his FMO intelligence, (possibly also for Shig,, not as convinced about that.)

 

I ticked this box for my original fighters no 9 through to no15, and most of thiose fighters turned out to follow the gameplan very intelligently. They didn't only punch in one round and then headkick in the second, then go for loads of clinches in the third, like some of my previous "thicko fighters" have done.

 

These fighters i selected "Knows how to adapt his gameplan" for, are much better of using all their attacks, mixing them up relatively evenly throughout the fight.

 

It wouldn't make any sense at all in a extremely well thought out fight engine, to have all these hiddens for intelligence, Heart etc... only to have all fighters equal under FMO.

 

So, that hidden has been one of my favorite ones, until the recent engine changes, where having a great chin, heart and KO power means everything in the game now.

 

I would really like to be corrected by Mike if i'm wrong on this subject, because going by my "in game" experience this is how this pans out.

 

Completely forgot about that hidden. Fair enough. Doesn't change my opinion about round by round tactics. I still feel that, that would be a nightmare and that the people that begged for this so hard would be the first ones to say... "wow... this really sucks. It takes me hours and hours to set all my sliders instead of a few minutes."

 

It would be a nightmare to code and I feel that it would drive probably more than half of the remaining players away from the game if it took them more than an hour to set their tactics.

[Grasman]

I'm happy enough with it as it is, so no need to change this for my sake.

 

I was just throwing up some pros and cons, but am fairly indifferent on the subject.

 

I do agree that round by round tactics could be messy in many aspects.

[Rambo]

Knows How To Adapt his Gameplan is the intelligence hidden. Extensive Amateur background is the experience hidden.

[Grasman]

Knows How To Adapt his Gameplan is the intelligence hidden. Extensive Amateur background is the experience hidden.

Has Mike verified this Bud?

[Rambo]

He's never had to. Otherwise, where can you select your intelligence hidden?

 

 

------------

• Knows how to adapt his gameplan
  
• Comes in with an extensive amateur record
  
• Has a big heart
  
• Has a granite chin
  
• Never gets injured
  
• Is very self confident
  
• Doesn't cut easily
  
• Is a fast learner
  
• Has natural KO power
  
• He is a popular fighter
  

and in the wiki

• Intelligence - Does not change through time. This is their natural intelligence and will dictate how readily they will change their gameplan during a fight, if they are losing. An intelligent fighter may also recognise when his opponent is hurt and will go for the kill when appropriate.
  
• Experience - Changes through time. Has a similar effect to intelligence.
  
• Heart - A fighter with a big heart will be TKO'd less easily. They will also become MORE dangerous if they are hurt.
  
• Chin - Maaaaark Hunto des! Good chin = difficult to KO.
  
• Injury proneness - At present, the only injuries in MMA Tycoon will happen after a fight. If you get injured, it will negatively affect your performance during fights.
  
• Self confidence - A more self confident fighter will have a tendancy to move forward.
  
• Cuts - Cuts happen during a fight. If they get too bad, the fight will be stopped by TKO (cuts).
  
• Fast Learner - If someone is a fast learner, they will train more effectively and go up in skills more quickly. This is something you need to pay attention to. If you're training someone who just "doesn't get it", then they will improve so slowly that you're basically wasting your time... if you get that feeling, you're better off releasing your fighter and diverting your attention to someone new, who has more potential.
  
• Natural KO - Some people have huge muscles but punch like a 12 year old girl... OK, well maybe that's pushing it a bit but your ability to KO someone does not just depend on your strength - there's something intangible in there too. In MMA Tycoon, this variable is it.
  

Only one it doesn't explain is popularity.

[Grasman]

Thanks Chris.

 

I have noticed that my most intelligent fighter is also my fastest learner, by far.

He scored 148 in an IQ test PM.

 

Are you sure the fast learner hidden isn't intelligence?

 

All of my fighters, except one, where ive selected "Knows his gameplan", have been very good at FMO, but only a couple of them have been good on SHIG.

[Rambo]

Thanks Chris.

 

I have noticed that my most intelligent fighter is also my fastest learner, by far.

He scored 148 in an IQ test PM.

 

Are you sure the fast learner hidden isn't intelligence?

 

All of my fighters, except one, where ive selected "Knows his gameplan", have been very good at FMO, but only a couple of them have been good on SHIG.

 

99% sure. Fast learner has nothing to do with the intelligence hidden though, only learning speed. Hiddens are a random roll that give you +30. You can select knows his gameplan and still end up with a 30-40 intelligence rating/roll.

 

 

not sure if fast learner has an impact on your IQ test? But I'm pretty damn certain that intelligence hidden is only affected by Knows How to Adapt Gameplan, and definitely not fast learning.

[Grasman]

99% sure. Fast learner has nothing to do with the intelligence hidden though, only learning speed. Hiddens are a random roll that give you +30. You can select knows his gameplan and still end up with a 30-40 intelligence rating/roll.

 

 

not sure if fast learner has an impact on your IQ test? But I'm pretty damn certain that intelligence hidden is only affected by Knows How to Adapt Gameplan, and definitely not fast learning.

I'm well aware of the +30 points.

 

The fact remains though, at least on my fighters, that my fast learners seem pretty good at fighting too, none of them at least seems stupid when fighting.

 

Maybe it's a coincidense, can't rule that out, but this is the case with my fighters.

How is it with your's, are your fast learners smart or stupid?

Have you ever had a stupid fast learner?

 

In RL, it seems pretty obvious that an intelligent person learnes the application of moves much faster than someone stupid as a brick shithouse.

[Rambo]

I'm well aware of the +30 points.

 

The fact remains though, at least on my fighters, that my fast learners seem pretty good at fighting too, none of them at least seems stupid when fighting.

 

Maybe it's a coincidense, can't rule that out, but this is the case with my fighters.

How is it with your's, are your fast learners smart or stupid?

Have you ever had a stupid fast learner?

 

In RL, it seems pretty obvious that an intelligent person learnes the application of moves much faster than someone stupid as a brick shithouse.

 

I know you're aware of it, just sayin for others viewing that regardless of what you select for your hiddens, there's still a chance they perform like shit or scored low on that particular hidden roll.

 

Sending PM regarding my fighters.

 

 

Joe Riggs - talented fighter, has all the tools and skilled in all areas, but come fight time he performs like shit. I don't know if he's intelligent or not. There's other's out there, plenty of smart guys just can't grasp the stand up game or don't perform well in it IRL and vice-versa.

[Guest]

I agree with CKeppelrun here. Intelligence and learning speed can be very different. A fast learner might quickly become an expert at many different skills. However, this doesn't mean that he has the strategic mind to adapt his gameplan and know when to use each of these skills. An intelligent fighter would have a strong mind for figuring out how to beat his opponent, but may take a long time to master the moves needed to execute.

[Grasman]

I agree with CKeppelrun here. Intelligence and learning speed can be very different. A fast learner might quickly become an expert at many different skills. However, this doesn't mean that he has the strategic mind to adapt his gameplan and know when to use each of these skills. An intelligent fighter would have a strong mind for figuring out how to beat his opponent, but may take a long time to master the moves needed to execute.

IRL, intelligence has nothing to do with being strong minded.

 

Intelligence gives you the ability to understand quickly where your coach is going, when teaching you different application of moves, something that translates back in the fight itself.

Therefore, an intelligent fighter will learn much quicker than someone whos mentally challenged.

 

That really isn't up for discussion, thats blatantly obvious IRL

 

Whether it is like that in this sim, that's the question.

 

On my fighters it points that way, hence i put the question forward.

But you guys seem to be speculating just as much as i am on this subject, and the only one that can really verify this, is Mike.

 

Personally, i have never had a fast learner who seemed stupid in his fights,

[Grasman]

Joe Riggs - talented fighter, has all the tools and skilled in all areas, but come fight time he performs like shit. I don't know if he's intelligent or not. There's other's out there, plenty of smart guys just can't grasp the stand up game or don't perform well in it IRL and vice-versa.

Thanks for the PM bud

I'd be willing to put money on that Joe Riggs wasn't as fast a learner.

 

Obviously being smart has little to do with weak/strong minds, it can actually cause you to have a weaker mind than a stupid fuck.

The stupid guy might not be as "aware" of the dangers of being hit, or just ignores it because he's stupid.

 

hence, being intelligent isn't necessarily a benefit when fighting, it can be a bad handicap IRL.

[Rambo]

Thanks for the PM bud

I'd be willing to put money on that Joe Riggs wasn't as fast a learner.

 

Obviously being smart has nothing to do with weak minds, it can actually cause you to have a weaker mind than a stupid fuck.

The stupid guy might not be as "aware" of the dangers of being hit, or just ignores it because he's stupid.

 

hence, being intelligent isn't necessarily a benefit when fighting, it can be a bad handicap IRL.

 

lol fair enough.

 

Not sure about Joe Riggs man, all I ever heard about him was how talented he was, but he underperformed. I usually use Riggs as a perfect example of a fighter that's morale would tank to 0 after every loss or a talented fighter who just couldn't find a way to win or perform at his capable level.

[Grasman]

lol fair enough.

 

Not sure about Joe Riggs man, all I ever heard about him was how talented he was, but he underperformed. I usually use Riggs as a perfect example of a fighter that's morale would tank to 0 after every loss or a talented fighter who just couldn't find a way to win or perform at his capable level.

I don't know much about Joe Riggs, other than he looks like a strong tough guy and fights like that, powering his way through.

 

One of my best friend is a Judo coach. He's always maintained that it was a handicap to be very strong and muscular when starting to learn Judo and discourages students to lift weights until they are brown/black belts.

 

In his experience the strong guys learn slower, because they usually power their way through the opponent, instead of having to use finesse, balance and transitional moves when rolling.

 

Hence the weaker guys tend to have better technique and flow better between the different moves when they are closing to the Brown/Black belt range. In his opinion, it's fine to be strong, but not much stronger than the other students at your level of training.

 

Don't know if that applies to Riggs, but he doesn't seem to clever though.

 

I totally agree with the morale comparison,,, maybe Riggs suffers from an "in cage" confidense problem?

[Guest]

IRL, intelligence has nothing to do with being strong minded.

 

Intelligence gives you the ability to understand quickly where your coach is going, when teaching you different application of moves, something that translates back in the fight itself.

Therefore, an intelligent fighter will learn much quicker than someone whos mentally challenged.

 

That really isn't up for discussion, thats blatantly obvious IRL

 

Whether it is like that in this sim, that's the question.

 

On my fighters it points that way, hence i put the question forward.

But you guys seem to be speculating just as much as i am on this subject, and the only one that can really verify this, is Mike.

 

Personally, i have never had a fast learner who seemed stupid in his fights,

 

I think I see where the confusion seems to be between what you are saying and what I am saying. Here is how I have deduced things to work:

 

The application of the moves is strategic. Learning WHEN you should throw a kick or shoot for a takedown. This would be part of your intelligence hidden.

 

Learning how to actually perform the move is purely phyiscal. This is part of the "fast learning" hidden.

 

This makes complete sense to me because I have seen meatheads who can barely spell their own name walk off the street and learn how to throw a punch in no time, then seen a law school graduate who just can't get the hang of it after several sessions of trying.

 

If this is indeed the case, an intelligent fighter with slow learning would know exactly when to throw a punch, but would throw a terrible punch. A stupid fighter with fast learning would throw an amazingly strong, technical punch...at the completely wrong moment of the fight.

 

My guess is that Steven Hawking could quickly learn amazing fight strategy and when to use which move correctly. However, he would suck at actually learning how to perform said moves.

 

Again, like you said, this is purely speculation and deduction and only Mike knows the true answer.

[Grasman]

I think I see where the confusion seems to be between what you are saying and what I am saying. Here is how I have deduced things to work:

 

The application of the moves is strategic. Learning WHEN you should throw a kick or shoot for a takedown. This would be part of your intelligence hidden.

 

Learning how to actually perform the move is purely phyiscal. This is part of the "fast learning" hidden.

 

This makes complete sense to me because I have seen meatheads who can barely spell their own name walk off the street and learn how to throw a punch in no time, then seen a law school graduate who just can't get the hang of it after several sessions of trying.

 

If this is indeed the case, an intelligent fighter with slow learning would know exactly when to throw a punch, but would throw a terrible punch. A stupid fighter with fast learning would throw an amazingly strong, technical punch...at the completely wrong moment of the fight.

 

My guess is that Steven Hawking could quickly learn amazing fight strategy and when to use which move correctly. However, he would suck at actually learning how to perform said moves.

 

Again, like you said, this is purely speculation and deduction and only Mike knows the true answer.

Good points mate.

 

But, there is more than "one" type of intelligence.

A mathematical genius can have a problem with figuring out a washing machine or be slow as fuck learning how to do something with his hands.

 

In this fighting sim, i expect the hiddens to be related to fighting, e.g. fighting intelligence, Physical AND mental learning speed.

When training to fight you train to be better at fighting, that includes physically learning how to throw a punch/kick etc...but you also learn mentally how and when to use that physical move or combination of moves.

 

My point is,, it's two sides of the same coin, learning to fight and actually fighting.

 

But, a part of that learning is as you say, physical (punches,kicks etc), and that part possibly is controlled by something other than intelligence, but the reast of the learning is definitely part of fighting intelligence.

[Guest]

I agree with you in real life, but I believe in this game "knows how to adapt his gameplan" is the intelligence hidden and "is a fast learner" is the learning speed one. The thing that makes me think that these are completely separate in the game sim and not at all related is because intelligence supposedly increases as your fighter gains experience. If intelligence increased learning speed, then your fighter would learn faster after fighting a few times. However, that is not the case. In fact, as your fighter ages, he learns slower, not faster.

[Grasman]

I agree with you in real life, but I believe in this game "knows how to adapt his gameplan" is the intelligence hidden and "is a fast learner" is the learning speed one. The thing that makes me think that these are completely separate in the game sim and not at all related is because intelligence supposedly increases as your fighter gains experience. If intelligence increased learning speed, then your fighter would learn faster after fighting a few times. However, that is not the case. In fact, as your fighter ages, he learns slower, not faster.

Good point mate.

 

There are of course limits to how close a sim can get to mimicking RL.

Maybe this is one of those limits.

[DougSupreme]

I'm sorry guys, but as far as i'm aware you are both wrong, Warwind and Alexei.

 

In the tickbox section (when creating a fighter), there is a tickbox for "Knows how to adapt his gameplan".

 

As far as i'm aware, this is the hidden for "Follow my orders",, e.g the gameplan i set for him.

Basically his FMO intelligence, (possibly also for Shig,, not as convinced about that.)

 

I ticked this box for my original fighters no 9 through to no15, and most of thiose fighters turned out to follow the gameplan very intelligently. They didn't only punch in one round and then headkick in the second, then go for loads of clinches in the third, like some of my previous "thicko fighters" have done.

 

These fighters i selected "Knows how to adapt his gameplan" for, are much better of using all their attacks, mixing them up relatively evenly throughout the fight.

 

It wouldn't make any sense at all in a extremely well thought out fight engine, to have all these hiddens for intelligence, Heart etc... only to have all fighters equal under FMO.

 

So, that hidden has been one of my favorite ones, until the recent engine changes, where having a great chin, heart and KO power means everything in the game now.

 

I would really like to be corrected by Mike if i'm wrong on this subject, because going by my "in game" experience this is how it pans out.

 

That refers to the Intelligence hidden. There is no FMO hidden....

IRL, intelligence has nothing to do with being strong minded.

 

Intelligence gives you the ability to understand quickly where your coach is going, when teaching you different application of moves, something that translates back in the fight itself.

Therefore, an intelligent fighter will learn much quicker than someone whos mentally challenged.

 

That really isn't up for discussion, thats blatantly obvious IRL

 

Whether it is like that in this sim, that's the question.

 

On my fighters it points that way, hence i put the question forward.

But you guys seem to be speculating just as much as i am on this subject, and the only one that can really verify this, is Mike.

 

Personally, i have never had a fast learner who seemed stupid in his fights,

 

I have had fighters who learned skills quickly, but were dumb as bricks (IQ Test), so they are definitely not related....Also, I've had fighters who showed Intelligent on TotT, but learned slow as hell

[Warwynd]

That refers to the Intelligence hidden. There is no FMO hidden....

 

I have had fighters who learned skills quickly, but were dumb as bricks (IQ Test), so they are definitely not related....Also, I've had fighters who showed Intelligent on TotT, but learned slow as hell

 

My fastest learner is also the only one to have ever shown "Intelligent" on the TotT. But I have not chimed in on this particular part of the discussion since I was not sure. One hardly makes a trend after all...