Different tactics per round

[sergio]

Mike please. Test this idea.

[Guest]

is this ever going to happen, maybe test it in a QFC tourney?

[DeadlyDirk]

is this ever going to happen, maybe test it in a QFC tourney?

 

That's a great idea, couldn't a few of us test this theory in a couple of QFC tournaments or something?

[Guest]

OK I see what you mean. Well, for example it might end up being

 

R1 run away.

R2 leg kicks.

R3 takedown and submit.

 

Something like that. I don't know if it would always work but I can see something like that being a problem.

 

Still more variables than now:

 

R1 leg kicks

R2 leg kicks

R3 leg kicks

 

Still win.

[Guest]

Definte change that is needed, but could also go to adding or hiring of staff ie corner men etc etc

[Rambo]

I don't like it at all, I think it's unrealistic in the sense that after the first 5 minutes most gameplans either go out the window, or continue to do what they did in round 1. If ANYTHING, if this IS implemented... after round 1 your fighter needs to pass an intelligence check or be on 100% SHIG and if he's smart he'll go with your gameplan.

 

 

I also have never seen a fighter say "I was throwing a bunch of leg kicks in round 1 cuz my coach told me to, and I stopped in round 2 and threw just punches or shot in for takedowns because that was the gameplan" not that it doesn't happen, but most of the time guys go out there with 1 gameplan to use for the whole fight... they don't have set option A set option B - that is what "FMO and SHIG" is for. SHIG - if your fighter is smart - will switch up his gameplan if/when losing. You do this round by round nonsense and it's a waste of everybody's time when everything is funtionable as is.

[sergio]

I don't like it at all, I think it's unrealistic in the sense that after the first 5 minutes most gameplans either go out the window, or continue to do what they did in round 1. If ANYTHING, if this IS implemented... after round 1 your fighter needs to pass an intelligence check or be on 100% SHIG and if he's smart he'll go with your gameplan.

 

 

I also have never seen a fighter say "I was throwing a bunch of leg kicks in round 1 cuz my coach told me to, and I stopped in round 2 and threw just punches or shot in for takedowns because that was the gameplan" not that it doesn't happen, but most of the time guys go out there with 1 gameplan to use for the whole fight... they don't have set option A set option B - that is what "FMO and SHIG" is for. SHIG - if your fighter is smart - will switch up his gameplan if/when losing. You do this round by round nonsense and it's a waste of everybody's time when everything is funtionable as is.

 

 

In a lot of fights, fighters change their strategy. The more complete fighter, more likely to change their strategy. There are few fighters who insist on only one tactic. For example:

 

FIRST EXAMPLE:

 

Jon Jones tried to use his Muay Thai in the first round against Lyoto Machida. Lyoto could be higher in the first round. Despite having been disputed. Already in the second round, Jones was the strategy of going for the clinch and try to control machida. Using takedowns and ground and pound. With that he ended up defeating Machida.

 

 

SECOND EXAMPLE:

 

Hughes utilized the boxing in the first round against Renzo Gracie. Gracie also used the Sidebar. And won the round with a small advantage. Realizing this, Hughes began using the more leg kicks. So Gracie would be slower. What Hughes would connect more punches. In the second and third round, Hughes kicked his legs from Renzo Gracie. The tactic worked. Gracie was slow. Hughes finished the fight with a good combo of punches.

 

3º EXAMPLE:

 

Anderson Silva vs Demian Maia:

Maia tried for the first four rounds, use the counterattack.

It did not work. He could not beat Anderson, failed to clinch and failed to use his takedowns.

Only in the last round, Maia decided to be more aggressive. So could hit some punches in Anderson. He lost the decision, but the decision of the judges, he won the last round.

 

4º EXAMPLE:

 

Florian during the 1st and 2nd round used their power to make Gomi, lose confidence in his striking. Gomi hurt and tired. In the 3rd round, used a takedown, controlled the position, the position has improved little by little, until he could finish using a RNC.

[Rambo]

In a lot of fights, fighters change their strategy. The more complete fighter, more likely to change their strategy. There are few fighters who insist on only one tactic. For example:

 

FIRST EXAMPLE:

 

Jon Jones tried to use his Muay Thai in the first round against Lyoto Machida. Lyoto could be higher in the first round. Despite having been disputed. Already in the second round, Jones was the strategy of going for the clinch and try to control machida. Using takedowns and ground and pound. With that he ended up defeating Machida.

 

 

SECOND EXAMPLE:

 

Hughes utilized the boxing in the first round against Renzo Gracie. Gracie also used the Sidebar. And won the round with a small advantage. Realizing this, Hughes began using the more leg kicks. So Gracie would be slower. What Hughes would connect more punches. In the second and third round, Hughes kicked his legs from Renzo Gracie. The tactic worked. Gracie was slow. Hughes finished the fight with a good combo of punches.

 

3º EXAMPLE:

 

Anderson Silva vs Demian Maia:

Maia tried for the first four rounds, use the counterattack.

It did not work. He could not beat Anderson, failed to clinch and failed to use his takedowns.

Only in the last round, Maia decided to be more aggressive. So could hit some punches in Anderson. He lost the decision, but the decision of the judges, he won the last round.

 

4º EXAMPLE:

 

Florian during the 1st and 2nd round used their power to make Gomi, lose confidence in his striking. Gomi hurt and tired. In the 3rd round, used a takedown, controlled the position, the position has improved little by little, until he could finish using a RNC.

 

 

None of those fighters were on "100% follow orders". Clay Guida vs Gray Maynard - 100% FMO. Carlos Condit vs Nick Diaz - 100% FMO. If you want your fighter to deviate from your strategy, lean with the See How It Goes, or don't have it on 100% follow orders. With the way this game engine is set up, with probability, randomness, percentages, etc... different tactics per round would be severely flawed and screw with the game mechanics for a long time if created with significant detail. I think you would need to simplify it a lot more than the current sliders.

[bucko91]

Unless your going to let fights be "live" then this has zero use. As if you set tactics for round 1 and your winning the round you dont change it but if your just setting rounds before the fight then you could end up change tactics wrongly which causes you to lose the fight. Nice idea but you need to see whats going on to change effectively

 

Maybe try a mini beta with it in a QFC tournement

[Guest]

OMFG!!!!

 

When is this goddamn improvement going to happen!!!??????!?????

 

I have been waiting for years for this! Literally

 

Please man, please

[Rambo]

Hopefully it'll never happen. Ever. We're fortunate enough as it is that we can set our fighters to 100% FMO and make them do exactly what we want.

[soyster89]

Hopefully it'll never happen. Ever. We're fortunate enough as it is that we can set our fighters to 100% FMO and make them do exactly what we want.

This!

[Stu_Pidasol]

Hopefully it'll never happen. Ever. We're fortunate enough as it is that we can set our fighters to 100% FMO and make them do exactly what we want.

 

 

This!

 

That's bullshit because even at 100% FMO - there is randomness which causes fighters to do things outside the slider settings.. you can be at 100% FMO and have 60% head punches but by the end of the fight you are still going 50% head punches and 50% body punches... Let's not put to much credit into the SHIG / FMO slider as it's not a great as you are making it out. Yes it's certainly handy and yes it helps in situations but it does not replace the possiblilties available by having multiple slider settings..

 

The only way multiple slider settings would work is if the were based on "if" statements (the fights wouldn't have to be live as alluded to earlier)

eg - "If winning then use X setting" "If losing then use X setting"

 

With all that being said if you are going to have multiple slider settings then you may as well do them properly and that would mean including "if statements" for things like cuts, knockdowns, energy advantage, energy disadvantage etc etc and to introduce something like that it would turn what is a fun and relatively simple fight sim into one that would be extremely confusing

[Rambo]

That's bullshit because even at 100% FMO - there is randomness which causes fighters to do things outside the slider settings.. you can be at 100% FMO and have 60% head punches but by the end of the fight you are still going 50% head punches and 50% body punches... Let's not put to much credit into the SHIG / FMO slider as it's not a great as you are making it out. Yes it's certainly handy and yes it helps in situations but it does not replace the possiblilties available by having multiple slider settings..

 

The only way multiple slider settings would work is if the were based on "if" statements (the fights wouldn't have to be live as alluded to earlier)

eg - "If winning then use X setting" "If losing then use X setting"

 

With all that being said if you are going to have multiple slider settings then you may as well do them properly and that would mean including "if statements" for things like cuts, knockdowns, energy advantage, energy disadvantage etc etc and to introduce something like that it would turn what is a fun and relatively simple fight sim into one that would be extremely confusing

 

This is a good thing. Name one fighter who said he's gonna throw 60% head punches and 40% body punches, leg kick 70% of the time, exactly 5% takedowns, clinching 13% of the time, etc. It's impossible.

 

 

That would be retarded. Making slider setting any more time consuming and complicated would be a huge mistake. The game functions great. Let it be.

[ajperok]

That's bullshit because even at 100% FMO - there is randomness which causes fighters to do things outside the slider settings.. you can be at 100% FMO and have 60% head punches but by the end of the fight you are still going 50% head punches and 50% body punches... Let's not put to much credit into the SHIG / FMO slider as it's not a great as you are making it out. Yes it's certainly handy and yes it helps in situations but it does not replace the possiblilties available by having multiple slider settings..

 

The only way multiple slider settings would work is if the were based on "if" statements (the fights wouldn't have to be live as alluded to earlier)

eg - "If winning then use X setting" "If losing then use X setting"

 

With all that being said if you are going to have multiple slider settings then you may as well do them properly and that would mean including "if statements" for things like cuts, knockdowns, energy advantage, energy disadvantage etc etc and to introduce something like that it would turn what is a fun and relatively simple fight sim into one that would be extremely confusing

 

 

Nothing wrong with a couple "if" statements... SHIG isn't perfect, especially when deciding which realm (standup/clinch/ground) your fighter should be fighting in. However, I feel I could remedy this with my own slider settings if I could change them per round.

Maybe not even "per round", but if I am getting my assed kicked, I should be able to change things up. SHIG doesn't do that much really.

[DeadlyDirk]

I still don't get the whole argument about HAVING to have IF statements.

 

I've always thought of the different tactics per round being a way of having a more detailed plan for the entire fight and not a case of plan a, plan b, if plan b fails go to plan C etc.

 

At the moment we set a gameplan to win and it either works or it doesn't, you don't have the ability to change things on the fly or depending upon what happens in the fight, other than SHIG. I don't see why this has to be any different if we are setting tactics over multiple rounds.

 

E.g. You set a tactic over multiple rounds that you think will win you the fight, You might decide to stand up with him in rounds 1 and 2 and then once they are tired go for takedowns in the 3rd rounds and look for a submission. Now when it gets to fight time it might work a treat and you pull off the victory or just maybe you end up kicking his ass in the standup for the first two rounds and then you take him down in the 3rd and get submitted yourself. That would just be the same as it is now, your own sliders cost you the fight, you live and learn from it.

 

To me this is completely realistic where as using all of the IF statements would definitely be pretty chaotic. To me it also wouldn't be that realistic, even if you could be there giving him a little pep talk in between rounds it's hard for a lot of fighters to suddenly adapt to a completely different plan because there coach calls some on the fly changes, where as if you have trained to make specific changes throughout the fight then it's much more doable.

[sergio]

I still don't get the whole argument about HAVING to have IF statements.

 

I've always thought of the different tactics per round being a way of having a more detailed plan for the entire fight and not a case of plan a, plan b, if plan b fails go to plan C etc.

 

At the moment we set a gameplan to win and it either works or it doesn't, you don't have the ability to change things on the fly or depending upon what happens in the fight, other than SHIG. I don't see why this has to be any different if we are setting tactics over multiple rounds.

 

E.g. You set a tactic over multiple rounds that you think will win you the fight, You might decide to stand up with him in rounds 1 and 2 and then once they are tired go for takedowns in the 3rd rounds and look for a submission. Now when it gets to fight time it might work a treat and you pull off the victory or just maybe you end up kicking his ass in the standup for the first two rounds and then you take him down in the 3rd and get submitted yourself. That would just be the same as it is now, your own sliders cost you the fight, you live and learn from it.

 

To me this is completely realistic where as using all of the IF statements would definitely be pretty chaotic. To me it also wouldn't be that realistic, even if you could be there giving him a little pep talk in between rounds it's hard for a lot of fighters to suddenly adapt to a completely different plan because there coach calls some on the fly changes, where as if you have trained to make specific changes throughout the fight then it's much more doable.

 

 

I think this would be the best upgrades in the game. Could be tricky for new players. But it is only one option. They used it if they think necessary or will own. I think this option would be too good for Grapplers. So they could work some rounds using Ground and Pound and controlling his opponent on the ground. And in the last round attempt a submission. Complete Fighters could be more important in the game. I love this news!

[Guest]

This is a good thing. Name one fighter who said he's gonna throw 60% head punches and 40% body punches, leg kick 70% of the time, exactly 5% takedowns, clinching 13% of the time, etc. It's impossible.

 

 

That would be retarded. Making slider setting any more time consuming and complicated would be a huge mistake. The game functions great. Let it be.

 

 

I feel you showed up to play at the wrong venue, and the wrong game

[Rambo]

I feel you showed up to play at the wrong venue, and the wrong game

 

 

 

Not at all, because it's not like that. I can set a basic strategy, and it's similar to what I set, but never exact. That's how it should be. Just because I have it set on 60% head punches, doesn't always mean my fighter is throwing 60% head punches. I recently had a fighter who threw 6 body punches, no head punches, and ended the fight with a head kick, despite being set on 55% head punches and 100% FMO. So yes, I am playing the right game, cuz that's the way it is now.

[Jeffro]

Not sure if this has been suggested,as I was skimming through most if this but if round by round tactics is implemented, there should be no guarantee that your fighter would follow through with the round bu found tactics.

 

Intelligence, experience, confidence, energy, etc. Should all factor in to deciding how well your fighter sticks to the round by round tactics, or if he even sticks to the at all.

 

So managers should not be surprised if their fighter doesn't stick to the plan say, if in the second round he was set to be more aggressive then the first round, yet in fact became less aggressive.

 

The manager gets angry and yells at his fighter post-fight "why didn't you do as I told you?!?"

 

Well there would be a few reasons. Maybe the fighter got scared because of low confidence and balled up as he was being pummled. Or because of low intelligence, he forgot the plan, or because of no experience he couldn't lost his focus, or because of low energy,he was to tired, or because of see how it goes, he thought he had a better plan. Maybe the fighters plan back fired(low intelligence), or maybe his plan worked better(high intelligence.)

 

See my point? Honestly the fmo vs shig sliders already covers everything that has to do with changing plans mid fight, late fight, etc. So I vote no.

[Erik]

This is a good thing. Name one fighter who said he's gonna throw 60% head punches and 40% body punches, leg kick 70% of the time, exactly 5% takedowns, clinching 13% of the time, etc. It's impossible.

 

 

That would be retarded. Making slider setting any more time consuming and complicated would be a huge mistake. The game functions great. Let it be.

 

 

While I semi-agree it would be good if the engine actually kept it within certain thresholds, it can be completely retarded with lower percentage moves sometimes.

[Warwynd]

I don't like it at all, I think it's unrealistic in the sense that after the first 5 minutes most gameplans either go out the window, or continue to do what they did in round 1. If ANYTHING, if this IS implemented... after round 1 your fighter needs to pass an intelligence check or be on 100% SHIG and if he's smart he'll go with your gameplan.

 

 

I also have never seen a fighter say "I was throwing a bunch of leg kicks in round 1 cuz my coach told me to, and I stopped in round 2 and threw just punches or shot in for takedowns because that was the gameplan" not that it doesn't happen, but most of the time guys go out there with 1 gameplan to use for the whole fight... they don't have set option A set option B - that is what "FMO and SHIG" is for. SHIG - if your fighter is smart - will switch up his gameplan if/when losing. You do this round by round nonsense and it's a waste of everybody's time when everything is funtionable as is.

 

Have to agree with Chris on this one.

 

In a lot of fights, fighters change their strategy. The more complete fighter, more likely to change their strategy. There are few fighters who insist on only one tactic. For example:

 

FIRST EXAMPLE:

 

Jon Jones tried to use his Muay Thai in the first round against Lyoto Machida. Lyoto could be higher in the first round. Despite having been disputed. Already in the second round, Jones was the strategy of going for the clinch and try to control machida. Using takedowns and ground and pound. With that he ended up defeating Machida.

 

 

SECOND EXAMPLE:

 

Hughes utilized the boxing in the first round against Renzo Gracie. Gracie also used the Sidebar. And won the round with a small advantage. Realizing this, Hughes began using the more leg kicks. So Gracie would be slower. What Hughes would connect more punches. In the second and third round, Hughes kicked his legs from Renzo Gracie. The tactic worked. Gracie was slow. Hughes finished the fight with a good combo of punches.

 

3º EXAMPLE:

 

Anderson Silva vs Demian Maia:

Maia tried for the first four rounds, use the counterattack.

It did not work. He could not beat Anderson, failed to clinch and failed to use his takedowns.

Only in the last round, Maia decided to be more aggressive. So could hit some punches in Anderson. He lost the decision, but the decision of the judges, he won the last round.

 

4º EXAMPLE:

 

Florian during the 1st and 2nd round used their power to make Gomi, lose confidence in his striking. Gomi hurt and tired. In the 3rd round, used a takedown, controlled the position, the position has improved little by little, until he could finish using a RNC.

 

First Example: SHIG does this.

 

Second Example: SHIG does this.

 

Third Example: SHIG does this.

 

Fourth Example: SHIG does this.

 

I am sensing a pattern here.

 

 

 

That's bullshit because even at 100% FMO - there is randomness which causes fighters to do things outside the slider settings.. you can be at 100% FMO and have 60% head punches but by the end of the fight you are still going 50% head punches and 50% body punches... Let's not put to much credit into the SHIG / FMO slider as it's not a great as you are making it out. Yes it's certainly handy and yes it helps in situations but it does not replace the possiblilties available by having multiple slider settings..

 

The only way multiple slider settings would work is if the were based on "if" statements (the fights wouldn't have to be live as alluded to earlier)

eg - "If winning then use X setting" "If losing then use X setting"

 

With all that being said if you are going to have multiple slider settings then you may as well do them properly and that would mean including "if statements" for things like cuts, knockdowns, energy advantage, energy disadvantage etc etc and to introduce something like that it would turn what is a fun and relatively simple fight sim into one that would be extremely confusing

 

The level of complexity would drive many people away. But yes I agree with your assessment. In the end, even if it would be cool to have more control over the way your fighters respond to various things during the course of the fight, it would become a colossal headache to make slider settings with this game adjust for round by round tactics or whatever.

 

In short implementing this would probbaly cripple the game and would make it far less fun to play.

[Erik]

SHIG does very little, FYI.

[Rambo]

SHIG does very little, FYI.

 

Not so sure about that. Get a fighter with good intelligence, you'll have much, much, much better results.

[Grasman]

People seem to forget that there is a hidden "ability to follow gameplan" that affects how well the fighter is capable of following the gameplan you set, just as the intelligence and Experience hiddens affect SHIG.

 

So, to be fair,, the engine already accounts for this.

 

Highly intelligent fighters are great at high Shig, while some of my fighters are thick as shit, but very good at following my gameplan.

 

Don't really see the problem with this, but wouldn't cry if i had the ability to gameplan round by round, while at the same time being able to run the same gameplan through all the rounds if i wanted to.

 

Can't really see the problem with that either.